A good school will easily find teachers, and has zero need to go trolling for them. Only very poor quality schools, at least in my experience, will resort to such tactics.

Turnoi doesn't like anyone possibly one upping him as the most helpful person on this board, however I will comment on this post nonetheless.

Even when a crap school is "trolling" for teachers, it is very unlikely to be a scam in the sense that someone wants to cheat you by making you pay for a visa or processing expenses of documents in connection with a job.

I think people posting here are tending to think of the word scam because A, it is the name of this forum, and therefore B, it has taken on a broader sense. hence anything that has elements of a scam is a scam, simple. You don't understand this?

Quite on the contrary, scammers of this kind will provide a fictitious job profile with very attractive conditions that a job applicant could not resist in applying for.

Is such a place really a scammer by your very narrow definition?

It seems by your own estimate a scammer would be someone lying about any aspect of the school, or who is dishonest in some way in their representation of the school.

From there, the scammer will ask for all kinds of pretend fees. This would not work if the job conditions were that unattractive; so, that even a crap school will act as a kind of scammer is very unlikely and not logical.

Scammers are only those who ask for fictitious fees? I think you are shooting yourself in the foot by trying to call into question the advice of others, by nitpicking to the point where you don't actually make a whole lot of sense. Crap schools do not try to scam would be teachers? Really? If you wish to split hairs in an attempt to discredit someone who simply provokes resentment and envy in you, you will look very foolish in the end.

If a school lies to you to get you to come, you are being scammed if you ask me, period. I don't think we need to micro categorize such people, as it doesn't change the end result, and that is that you should not work for them. Don't make complex what is a simple matter just for the sake of your own ego. Keep it simple stupid ;)

In brief, in case of scammers, there is never - I say, NEVER - a legit school behind it - whether crap "school" or not.

Hence crap schools can be scammers, though you just said they would not be since they are crap. Your logic never ceases to amaze.

And crap "schools" looking for teachers would never - I say, NEVER - ask for any kind of visa or other document processing fee; it's contrary to their business interest, even if they are crap! And that applies to pretend and crap recruiters as well!

Wouldn't the act of doing so make them a crap school, thereby nullifying your logic, as they would then be a crap school? Also your logic is rather flawed, as to say that they are too crappy to risk it is kind of like saying someone is too crazy to try and commit suicide.

If there are pretend recruiters offering an attractive job and there is none in reality,

This is self evident by the use of the word "pretend", you need not qualify it by letting us know there are none in reality, since if they were offering such they would not be pretend. Though I have to question your use of the word "pretend", since you have chosen to set the tone of the argument by splitting so many hairs so finely. If they do indeed recruit people then they are hardly pretend, wouldn't you agree? Honestly, if you are going to give good advice, please get your terminology right and define these people as what they are. Geez.

then these are scammers and not simply crap recruiters as well.

Please make up your mind, you have already said that those who are crap would not dare scam others because they are too crappy to risk it, so how can they be crappy and be scammers?

Crap recruiters are those that can offer real jobs by promising more than would be really true, but they are no scammers then!

If they are offering more than is true, than they are lying to attract a teacher, hence trying to scam you, are they not? How are they not a scammer? Your logic simply amazes me. Crap recruiters are not scammers, but can be, crap schools can not be, but are, one wonders how you keep it all straight in the brilliant head of yours.

We need to be consistent in our terminology as "scammers", crap "schools" and recruiters differ in many respects; all of them are evil and cause tremendous harm to foreign teachers, and mixing this garbage people and their evil-doings up is not helpful!

I agree, we do indeed need to be more consistent, and in that arena this post has not only failed, but it has hopelessly muddied the waters. Well done, in your vendetta to attack for the sake of discrediting another you have basically thrown consistency and proper terminology to the wind, and replaced it with a near schizophrenic view of the subject. Well done.

To give some sound advice that might do some good to people looking for advice, keep these two things apart and think about it before posting on such topics... Please!!!!!

I suggest you think more before posting advice about how to give advice, and then not taking that advice yourself.