I hate to call the rest of you liars, but you are. I actually was hired at a company called Best-Learning through Allestra Recruiting and have had countless opportunities to succeed. I currently have a job were I am a supervisor making 4,000 USD a month in China, with expenses around 1,000 USD a month. This has been a great opportunity for me and if Allestra is able to find you a job you feel comfortable with, take a chance and go for it. I have lived here for over a year now and love it. It's more up to the individual. Allestra is just a contact who finds schools that needs teachers and finds teachers that want to go to China. Do your research and make the right decision! Don't blame the recruiter for doing their job.

Feel free to email me with questions and I can tell you I truly am in China and that the rest of these people saying SCAM are full of crap! I just don't think it is right. I believe someone probably got angry with Allestra for some reason and posted lots of lies. This website shouldn't post lies either!

Anyways, we agree on the basic principle of having funds available to deal with unexpected crises that may arise!

That we do, sir.

Yes, it is very important that you always have some money of your own on you in case something unexpected happens. You simply cannot rely on your Chinese employer to help you out in such exceptional circumstances - whether it may a political crisis with impacts on the security of foreigners, a serious illness that you better have treated by a Western physician, or when you have to do a runner from your employer for a very serious reason and would have to leave China immediately. When in China, I have always had a "security relief fund" of around 1500 Euros minimum with me which I would only make use of in such an emergency situation. To keep it in the form of American Express Traveller Cheques which can be cashed anywhere in China is quite a safe way; you might even get a refund when the cheques are stolen.

Turnoi, I only disagree on one tiny point: I think it's perfectly fine to come to China on an L visa. It's just taking a job that will make you STAY on that L visa, by not getting you a Residence Permit, that is a bad thing and must be avoided.

Yes, it is a tiny point, and I have the privilege to disagree on that one...LOL

Anyways, we agree on the basic principle of having funds available to deal with unexpected crises that may arise!

I have no sympathy for those who punt a contract just for the hell of it. I do understand that some people just can't adapt to life in China, and I think such people should be able to leave freely. And if you're seriously ill, you need to get the hell out of China- insured or not- and go somewhere where the doctors take showers and go to college and stuff...

I think it all depends on the type of person you are. Some Westerners just cannot adjust to life in China. They'd rather pay the full penalty for breach of contract to get out as soon as possible, once they have actually experienced life in the country. Others are irresponsible and immature, only very few, I'll grant you, so much so that they will breach a contract despite their employer not having breached it first. Why shouldn't they have to pay the maximum penalty in that situation? Fair is fair, and they did, after all, sign the contract! As for illness, none of us knows when that will afflict us. If you are suddenly and unexpectedly taken seriously ill, you'll need to be in intensive care for some time until you can fly home. That will cost a great deal here!, and not be covered by any Chinese employers here, I venture to suggest. Of ciourse, you can take out your own private medical insurance, should you wish to do so. I'd expect a comprehensive policy to devour a great deal of your salary.
Anyways, we agree on the basic principle of having funds available to deal with unexpected crises that maty arise!

Absolutely, Raoul, I have to completely agree with you:

I just can't think of ANY reasonable or attractive scenario that involves the need for using a recruiter.
I can think of lots of Invitations to the Blues that DO involve using a recruiter.
Don't use a recruiter. Just...don't. If you have to rely on one of those scammers to get a job, you really should reconsider coming to or being in China at all.

There are two basic important DON'Ts regarding teaching in China:

1. Do not come here on any other than a Z visa.
2. Never use a recruiter to find a job but contact schools directly instead.

There are also some important DOs regarding teaching in China:
1. Make sure you have a degree and a teaching qualification before looking for a job there. If you do not any of them, try to get them by studying for them before or while you are working.
2. Always ask for a written and signed/sealed contract to be sent to you prior to your departure for China. If they fail to send you that DO NOT GO!
3. As them for the proper documentation to be sent to you you will need to apply for a Z visa in your home country. If they fail to do so, DO NOT GO!

Personally, I have always been on a z visa or its equivalent to China ("equivalent" means that there were other visa categories in the period before China's open door policy back in the late 1970s and the early 1980s when I went there already). I also think it is a legitimate concern of the Chinese authorities to enforce age restrictions if this was an attempt to raise general standards in the crappy Chinese world of ESL (but enforcing age restrictions is not necessarily a major step towards better standards per se).

After many years of educational service in China, I am personally convinced that under the current system China is still too resistant to the necessary changes in its educational system and that because of this I would personally be wasting my time and energy over there. My alternative option has been to start a college project with many dedicated and honest collaborators in different nations, including Nepal, Korea, Singapore, Haiti, and various nations in Africa with Kenya as our main centre. After 5 years of quite successful operation, I can say that there is still a lot of work to do, and that there is still much, much room for improvement. Hence, personally I am not in the situation to look for another job. It's also a way to make sure that you do not become "jobless"...grin.

Good thoughts, these, but maybe a little excessive. I'd say that if you have some means of getting out of China quickly if necessary- either with your own funds or help from family and friends- and the ability to feed and house yourself in the meantime, that's probably close enough. I would never claim you required total security in order to work in China...just don't be in a position where you have to accept an abusive job.

I wouldn't worry too much about breach penalties. ('Breech' penalties, I guess, would be fines paid for being the rear or lower part of something? ;-{) ) I think breach penalties exist primarily to give schools a semi-legal means of keeping your remaining accrued pay if you bolt on them early, and you're very unlikely to have to pay that full amount...especially if the school is in breach of contract as well.

Agreed, teaching illegally in China is not to be recommended, but some foreigners are doing it. Just to reiterate that teaching with an L or an F is illegal. Foreigners who arrive on L's, start teaching, and are awaiting going on a HK visa run are just as guilty as those who abuse the regulations for years on end. That should be stressed.
Arriving on an L, and looking for work, is dodgy. But maybe said foreigners were unable to obtain job offers from Chinese employers whilst in their homelands, making it impossible for them to arrive in China on a Z.
And other foreigners are getting Z visas because unscrupulous recruiters are forging other foreigners' university degrees to get Z visas for their unqualified jobseekers with or without their knowledge, and with or without the knowledge of the FAO's at certain educational establishments, both public and private! A recent post on the board highlighted a case where a recruiter offered a forged BA degree to an unqualified foreigner for 4800 Yuan! Said agent also used the electronic copy of the forgery to obtain a job for said foreigner, who was aware of the fraud, as was the school's FAO!

I forgot to mention another group, of which some of its members might be tempted to use agents for job hunting. That's the golden- oldies who are over 55, especially those over 60. Some of those between 55 and 59 may have had difficulty obtaining job offers due to a combination of ageism and mediocre resumes. Those over 60 because of enforcement, though not necessarily uniform, of an employment regulation on the books that can prevent the issue of Z visas to this group. Recent evidence suggests that said regulation is being strictly enforced in certain provinces.

And, finally, some foreigners are using forged Master's degree certificates and PhD's to enhance their salaries here. Maybe some agents are peddling said forgeries too! I wouldn't rule that out in China!

Two teaching contracts, alarm bells ringing, definitely somebody is at it. Similarly, a western friend of mine here on mainland, bought a new apartment. After a lengthy time, he had to apply for a housebook, not cheap, as it includes buyer's purchase tax. At that time, the property developer's wife wanted to do a new contract, reducing the flat's area from 103 square meters to 98! The foreigner's wife refused, because were the apartment ever to be sold on, her husband would get less for it, on account of its reduced area. She reckoned that the property developer wanted to cheat the local government out of tax, coz he'd have to pay tax too! Of course, by means of the area reduction, said foreigner could have cheated tax too. Being honest, he refused to do a new contract.
More about tax evasion on mainland. Said foreigner was teaching in a provincial capital at a public college. Ten days or so before he was due to finish his teaching there, his Chinese wife went to the railroad station to buy tickets for their departure for a holiday in Xiamen. The college FAO asked his wife to ask other travelers for their used tickets at the railroad station, and give him the ones that had been used for long journeys, as they were more 'valuable'. When she asked him why, he told her that they were needed by the college accountant for tax purposes!

I would never ask an employer in China for the e-mail address of current or former foreign staff either. They will just ask one of their snivelling lackeys to send you some e-mails. It is wise to NEVER trust any employer in China until you have known them for some time. The Chinese may be many things, but honest is certainly not a word you would use to describe most of them.

Reading the board regularly is an excellent way to obtain the knowledge we require to prevent ourselves being taken for a ride here!

Yep, that's what it's all about...or at least should be.

There certainly ARE corrupt employers in China...actually a lot more of them than the honest kind. That's part of my argument against using recruiters...it's tough enough already- why add another layer of completely unnecessary probable sleaze?

And, I'm always alarmed at how many people completely misunderstand the nature of constructs like SAFEA. SAFEA exists TO PROTECT THE SCHOOLS FROM US, not the other way around, and anyone expecting to turn to them for recourse or justice is going to be bitterly disappointed. A SAFEA contract is just another contract like any other, to be enforced or ignored as is convenient for the school.

Kudos, Monitor! Your approach to this is FAR more savvy and intelligent than anything most other people would do.

My only quibble: You're still assuming that these people are telling you the truth.
I dunno...maybe your obvious experience stuns them into realizing they can't pull a fast one on you. But sadly, this won't apply to the average Joe off the plane...

Well, I'd have to say that when I contact a recruiter, I specify exactly what I am looking for, as regards location, teaching hours/week, salary, other contractual payments and perquisites, contractual conditions of employment, public or private sector teaching, kindergarten or junior high school or senior high school or college or university. I insist on being provided with the contact details of employers wishing to hire me, and on communicating direct with such employers before considering a job offer seriously. I'd NEVER allow a recruiter to place me somewhere. Instead, I have the final say where I am bound for, and am NOT prepared to negotiate a teaching contract with a potential employer under any circumstances! If the overall employment package meets my demands, I might well be happy to accept it. But of course, I'd have googled the employer's name first to see if I could dig up any dirt. I would NEVER ask a potential employer for the e-mail addresses of his (or her) former or current foreign staff. I know that they are NOT to be trusted either, and what's one man's meat is another man's poison. Once I'd found a job tailor-made to my requirements, I'd insist on an electronic copy of the contract and its appendix, to be stamped by the employer first. I'd sign it, and scan it, before e-mailing it back to my new employer, and at the same time to my recruiter.
Summing up, recruiters can find job opportunities for foreigners, but thereafter filtering is necessary to separate the wheat from the chaff! Many Chinese recruiters would NOT entertain my demands, especially bigtime ones. No matter, there are enough smalltime recruiters for me to choose from who are only too glad to cater to my demands in order to make a buck!

Allestra Recruiting is surely a dishonest and unprofessional recruiter. I agree with you that it is best to steer clear!

By contrast, there are indeed what I would call honest and professional recruiters operating in cyberspace who provide an excellent service for both budding and established foreign teachers looking for teaching posts in China, though they tend to be rather thin on the ground.
Unfortunately, when it comes to teaching contracts, many Chinese educational establishments operate unprofessionally compared to the UK. They expect louwai to negotiate the terms and conditions of contracts, something that former UK teachers, for example, are unused to doing, and many of whom would find abhorrent. Professional recruiters can act as a middleman on behalf of foreigners, and thus avoid foreigners participating direct in haggling with potential employers. Another advantage that a recruiter has is that he will have had reports, both good and bad, from foreigners whom he had previously placed in certain educational establishments. So, he can tell you if the staff there are laid back or not. Not all foreigners want to immerse themselves in competitive environments within the Chinese education system!
Chinese educational establishments located off the beaten track and at distance from their provincial capitals often prefer going through recruiters based in provincial capitals. Why? Because by doing so the FAO's needn't embark on time-consuming travel to the provincial education bureaus located only in the provincial capitals, followed by more time wasted due to bureaucracy, in order to get the invitation letters for their new FT's approved. Recruiters will willingly do so on behalf of employers. Of course, without said approval, Z visas cannot be obtained by louwai! Click on the link below for information re my preferred Chinese recruiters' MO:

http://eslteachersboard.com/cgi-bin/forum/index.pl?page=2;read=56688

Thanks Turnoi! You've certainly saved me a great deal of trouble! I shall definitely stay away from that job offer!!!

Hi there

Does anyone know if this is a scam or for real? Allestra Recruiting are offering a free fully paid internship to China (http://www.allestrarecruiting.com/jobs%20in%20china-internship.html). The thing that makes me concerned about it is that when I first applied for the internship, they had an option of 1 year or 6 months fully paid and 3 months where you would have to pay for your own airticket and accommodation. Then when I went back a few weeks later after the next process in the selection process, all of a sudden the duration of the internship had changed - 3 months, 1 month and 2 week internships ALL fully paid (which sane person would pay for airfare to China with only 2 weeks work in exchange)?

Please advise.

Thanks. :)