Dear Felix:

Thanks for the understanding you rendered. As a matter of fact. From the very beginning of my being in Yanliang, I had been ready to leave, but I slso wanted to have a survey of that school. Besides the earlier reasons, there were more:
1.Before I went to Yanliang, I had told them the train and time when I'll be there. The first night I arrived at Xi'an train station in the evening. I found there were buses later.They took me to an expensive hotel and let me pay the bill, The next day, I have to search my way to the school about 50 km away. No re-imbursement. Then I found they did have an apartment already ready for my coming.
2.The very first night, I had a class of two students.
3.There were almost nothing ready for me. I have to go to a store with them in the next evening after class for a quilt and a sheet.A couple of days later, two bowls and two plates.
4.A week later was the Oct. 1st. national day vacation. No one arranged anything for me.
5.I have to ask for a water boiler that was over a month later for me to get it.
6.Classes were not schedules. Many times told me 20 or 30 minutes earlier. It took 30 minutes by walking. Tax fares were never mentioned or re-imbursed.
7.Public schools usually never miss my birthday in Nov. Not the private one.
8.Mid-Autumn festival was nothing mentioned or done for me.
9.Since I always corrected students' penmanship, one day I found some first-year students' homework in a public school we catered were signed by their teacher as "aood!" (The 'a' was in capital looked like G),I mentioned that to the head teacher in that level, Mr. Wang, who, instead of apologizing for the mistake, told me that was the only way they taught the students, The capital printed and the 'slanted'. He even demonstrated. Then I found he mistook the cursive capital 'a' as the printed G. From there on, I heard the head of our school, Seldon Wang, mentioned that they, the students and their parents, preferred 'foreign' 'native' teachers.

By then, the school had already had some new foreigners introduced to my classes, I knew the school was going to
kick me out. And for the two months, I hadn't had my luggage unpacked yet. Then I told them I'll leave in Dec.

Sheldon, the chief, did give me a good recommendation letter, but this and all the private schools gave me a very poor impression which will never be forgotten.
Alex

Dear Felix:
1.I didn't accept the contract offered.
2.Private schools usually have classes in the evening and the weekends, and that's the worst.
3.I am not a racist. No offense to blacks. I have been in Canada and the States for more than 35 years. I know what kind of language is foul. But, being a teacher, it's not proper to use bad language to anybody,though the Chinese school admins don't understand. I don't use them at all.
4.We the 'foreign' teacher suppose to be cultural ambassadors to the host countries, not only to introduce the language skills but also should try to pass the good manners and globally accepted behaviors to our students. Do you agree with me?

Dear Razoo:
Thanks for the points you reminded me.
I have missed your note for half a year. Since then, I was invited to Zhongshan,Guangzhou,to a private school called Capital, where the students are still emailing me but the management was prejudiced to White and Native, and wanted me to be paid to Chinese standards and at the same time taking care of some administrative duties to which I turned down and left after a month without being paid as they had advertised.From there on, I took another private on in Yanliang, Xi'an, I was accepted pretty warmly, but after another two months, they paid more and hired a black with a mouthful of foul language and terminated my hiring.From all these, I realize that private schools are not for me!
In my last 5 years of teaching in universities, I helped not only in oral conversation, I also emphasized in translation, writing, listening. Even in calligraphy and social Do's and Don'ts. I met lot more people in English corners around those cities like Chengdu, Nanchang and Dalian prophesying the importance of this universal language. I don't really mind too much about the pay, yet, hate being treated inferior by being paid less in Yanliang.

Korea is w/o a doubt the most RACIST Country in the world I've ever had the displeasure of living in! I wish teachers would get a clue and avoid Korea. At least, until they start playing nicey nicey.

Seoul may be becoming more dangerous for Americans:
An email recently sent out by the American Embassy about danger in Seoul:

Subject: Potential Threat to US Citizens in University Areas

The U.S. Embassy is transmitting the following information through the
Embassy's warden system as a public service to all U.S. citizens in the
Republic of Korea. Please disseminate this message to U.S. citizens in
your organizations.

Recently, inflammatory sexual content was posted to a website for
English language teachers in Korea. That posting together with subsequent
postings were taken by some to demean Korean women. We have noted
recently, strong reaction in the form of web postings threatening attacks in
the vicinity of Hongik University and the Sinchon area against
Americans and other foreigners who speak English. All Americans and their
families (especially young adults) are encouraged to exercise prudence and
caution when visiting these neighborhoods. The Embassy advises that
inappropriate social behavior in public may be seen as provocative by
Korean nationals.

The U.S. Embassy in Seoul will continue to keep the U.S. community
informed of any changes in the overall security situation. The Embassy
encourages all U.S. citizens to register their presence in Korea with the
American Citizens Services (ACS) office at the U.S. Embassy or via the
Internet at http://travel.state.gov/travel/abroad_registration.html or
http://www.asktheconsul.org/.

I read your post about how Korea gets the "bad minority" from English countries. I have NO sympathy for your complaints for the following reasons:

1) Whatever shortcomings the foreigners have in the classroom are usually a result of lack of experience or education. Pay more and the more qualified teachers would come to Korea.

2) Even with the low standards in Korea, most foreigners could find decent jobs in their home country. They come to Korea for change and if male, for women. But they don't have to be in Korea, get that through your arrogant head. Its a marketplace, idiot. They're paid some money to work in crappy conditions and experience a new culture. If it was only about money they wouldn't be there. But together, those factors (money, new experience, sometimes women) are enough to bring them out of their home countries. But they're not "bums" at home. Which is why they don't like to be treated like "bums" when they're in Korea.

3) Whatever behavioural problems the foreigners exhibit are a result of not taking Korean schools seriously. Why? Maybe because half the time they are SCAMMED BY CRIMINALS RUNNING THE SCHOOLS. Try imposing decent moral and legal standards regarding employment contracts and the treatment of employees, and maybe foreigners would be more respectful.

4) Your comment "not a word about all the foreigners teaching illegally...not paying taxes" is so ridiculous I don't know where to begin. They can only teach illegally if Koreans are eager to participate in the illegality, for one. Secondly, it is widely known that many of the schools themselves are cheating the Korean government out of taxes. Try having a real law abiding economy.

5) Even if Korea were in fact a funtional and law abiding society I would still have no sympathy for your complaints because it is widely known that KOREA IS F*@K!NG RACIST. If you hired people based on their qualifications instead of their RACE you might find that the quality improves, you beligerent f*@k!ng racist. And the more that whites realize that you favour them due to your racism the less they (or anyone else from a western country) will ever respect you.

> All societies have a majority good and a minority bad. Unfortunately
> here in Korea we get as English teachers the minority bad of those
> societies.

> a- most of the teachers in Korea can't even adapt to their societies
> b- at home they will be homeless or unemployee living with their
> parents
> c- mental cases - violent among them abound
> d- most of them are fly in and they don't have any money at the
> arrival time
> e- many of them never taught a dog how to retrive a stick
> f- all they do is complain about our schools, but no a word a the
> hundreds working part time ilegally and avoiding taxes or serving
> time in our jails

> This list can go, on and on

> Solution: I read soon there will be a governmement online data base
> for schools and parents to find out which of these teachers has
> previous violent records in other schools (in Korea), alcohol and
> drugs problems.

> I do agree in order for societies to improve and succeed, open minds
> and borders is a must, but to accomplish that infections have to be
> cure and heal first.

> All the good teachers out there, welcome to Korea, all the bad
> treachers, please leave soon.

> Hi, Katy & all the ESL teachers:

> There are two faces of a coin. I did see all of them.

> Once I was assigned teaching Writing in a pretty famous language
> center to two classes. Most of the students were sent by corporate
> businesses. Many students didn't attend classes, not often handed in
> reqired assignments. In class, they dept asking HOW to WRITE. Told
> them that they could write whatever they way they want. I showed them
> lots of examples from famous novels. At a mid-term exam, lots of them
> failed. Many of them figured that they couldn't pass and sent the
> class leader to me for leniency. I gave them not favors, but I
> allowed them extra hours for reviewing. Then they went to the school
> admin who came to me to see if I would raise their marks which I
> refused. In order to keep that source of students, the school didn't
> fire me but assigned another local teacher to take my classes. By
> giving them a model composition, the students memorized the model,
> and all passed the course.

> In that same school, a Russian lady was hired to teach part-time
> English to a Saturday kid school. She was no good in English at all,
> but she took the job because she needed the money to support the
> family at home. She came to me every Friday evening, and then teach
> the kids the next day.

> In another school, there was another younger foreign teacher. He was
> doing photophy before. No degrees. His classes were said by his
> students the most boring. They complained but to no avail. He knew it
> was difficult to satisfy the audience.He came to me for advices very
> often.His students came to me for problems, too. Yet, whenever came
> to the re-imbursement of medical expenses, the school had no problem
> with him, and picking on mine very often. My plane ticket bought at
> rush season was re-imbursed the same as his at a lower rate at end of
> February. Since it was at the end of the contract, I even didn't have
> time to argue.

> Alex Wu

P.S. In one of the Writing class I mentioned, they assigned an English man to take over. I happened to see one of a corrected paper on the class foor. Out of curiosity, I read it and found lots of mistakes, spelling and grammar, were not corrected.

> Hey Athena, your talk about low class universities degrees in Korea.
> I really question the established universities that give the foreign
> teachers thier degrees, specially the BA in edu. of course not to
> mention the disastrous "tesol diploma" that comes with the
> package.

> BTW: Before you create a virtual personality of me without even know
> me, my name is Baek, I'm doing a PHD.

> I agree 100% with Mary Choi's message. Why Korea is the country that
> offers the best teaching packages (including round prepaid airfare)
> and all we get as teachers is the worst scum of this world. Many of
> them can not even speak English well. of course they all qualify for
> teachers coz all of them have BA's and tesols from the so called well
> established universities.

Hi, Baek:

I do agree with your opinion about Mary Choi's message PARTLY, yet, offering the best teaching package does not always ending up with best teachers if they, the Korean schools, keep hiring YOUNG, IN-EXPERIENCED, UN-QUALIFIED, not mentioning about UN-QUALIFIED, only pale-faced "native speakers"? Who's to blame?

There are also problems with the recruiters, too. I have two degrees, BA and BEd (with more than 25 years teaching experience in Canada), listed in my Certificates of Qualifications issued by The College of Teachers in Ontario. The recruiter replied by saying: "We hire only teachers with a BS".
Alex Wu

> Thank you Mel and Rose, about time someone here mention the students.
> My comments regarding Razoo's remarks: A good teacher never undermine
> the students publicly or privately. I don't like a bit how Razoo
> described a korean classroom. I wouldn't fire Razoo yet if this was
> my school. I'll ask him first, to clear this up and explain what a
> kid behaving bad has to do with the GENERAL description of the
> classroom he mentioned. Korean kids are as good as any kids anywhere.

> Kei - Korea

A key thing here for the school owner to note is first - make sure Razoo's comments are without foundation.. In some schools they might be perfectly well-founded. And second, let's not ignore that Razoo was STOPPED from disciplining- if the students know that, only the very best students will not take advantage of the situation.

That said - everyone who has posted on this has made good points and that is certainly something nice to see here!

I've no experience teaching abroad. I'm the director of a school.

Mel,
You're totally correct!

Razoo,
You're Fired! You're NOT a teacher. Sorry for the kids and schools in Asia.

> I wasn't referring to that part of "put the potty-mouthed kid
> outside" the classroom. I was referring to the words used by
> Razoo to described the classroom.

> "and in the midst of all the madness of children running

Mel, what do you think Razoo should have done? Ignored it? I have to say that Razoo probably did the best he could under the circumstances - and your comments didn't help any. If you think he could have done something better, tell him what that is- try to help him rather than just criticize.

My own personal idea - and certainly many will disagree - would be that Razoo did right in putting the kid in the hallway - I would add that he should have(and maybe he did, but he didn't mention it) followed up by letting the kid know exactly why he was out there - and what he could do to make sure it didn't happen again.

Certainly, the kid needed to be removed from the classroom - for awhile. And then work on getting him back into the classroom with proper behavior.

Great post Sakana.

> Hello Michael. Could you explain what Mary Choi message has to do
> with her English grammar misspellings that you corrected it and
> lectured her. Mary is in Korea, speaks Korean and never mentioned to
> be an English teacher or an English student or asked for help with
> her English. If you understood her message or idea, then just give
> your feedback to the topic of discussion. Could you imagine if you
> were the one that put the message in Korean and Mary Choi replies
> correcting your Hangul.

> I find irrespectful and lack of touch, English speakers that bring
> the correct English pronunciation or grammar subject to anybody who
> does not agree with them. i dont know about Korean school systems
> and their teachers, but with your nonesense reply, I think Mary has a
> valid comment.

> The fact that you claim to have many years teaching in Asia and still
> fall into this simple language cultural pitfall, shows how
> disconnected English teachers could be to Asian cultures after years
> in Asia. I just cannot imagine how the new ones think.

> Just in case: I am Japanese in Japan and I am not asking you to
> correct my English. If you don't understand this message, let me
> know, I can ask somebody who speak better English than me to help me
> write a new message. Or if you wish I can always write and put the
> message in Japanese.

> Enjoy your Asian experience.

> Sakana

Sakana! Excellent post.

A beautiful post Sakana!

God bless you!

John & Tomiko (Japan)

Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels or bad teachers

Jefferson

Tim, some of the posts were definitely anti-American and those that were anti-froreigners were anti-American,too. Also, not every foreigner teaching in South Korea comes through recruitment agencies. The number of Canadians (70%) you quoted seems very high, but, even if you are absolutely accurate, that is only the number recruited by recruitment agencies from the source you used. Some schools never use recruitment agencies and others do not solely recruit this way.

It is ironic when South Koreans are anti-American and is definitely ungrateful and shows very little sense of history.

If it were not for the American presence during the Korean War, all of Korea would be united- under the Communist flag of North Korea. And we all know how "well' that country is doing.

Also, I find it humorous and telling when see a Korean on television speaking English, wearing a New York Yankees baseball cap, a DKNY shirt, jeans, and Converse sneakers standing in front of a Burger King eating a Whopper and saying, : I hate Americans!"

I always laugh and think " You are more American than I am!"

Amen, Julie. Thank you.

Hi Julie,

I just searched this forum using my browser search option, and I didn't find any anti-american remark, except your post.

Are you an anti-american????

Paul H.

Hello Julie,

You seem like you did not put much effort reading the messages by Koreans in this forum. NONE OF THEM IS ANTI- AMERICAN or mention Americans anywhere.

Besides, the majority of English teachers in Korea are Canadians, for the last 10 years or so. e.g. Recruiters like me get pay more for hiring Canadians. no offense, to the other countries where English teachers come from, is a business in Korea and schools keep asking for Canadians. Despite the poor English you observed from the recruiters in these forums (I guess) - is well known in Korea that some of them (good ones) place around 200 English teachers a year (around USD 300k a year), around 70% of these teachers are Canadians. IT'S A BUSINESS.

Personally I found these web new forums very interesting as help the English teachers be more prepare to take the big step and travel overseas to teach English. The more the English teacher knows, the better for him/her, the Korean school and of course, the recruiter.

Success and happiness to our 2 great countries and why not, to all the countries of earth!, Tim

Dan, someone as learned as yourself ought to know the dangers of someone taking something out of context - and Santana's post would only be great if she had actually addressed the main issues of my post, which she didn't do.

Thanks for catching that one, Daryl - she did say that most of the teachers in Korea can't adapt to their societies. Amd most of the teachers in Korea are Koreans- Mary you cut yourself down without even knowing it!

"a- most of the teachers in Korea can't even adapt to their societies"

You've made a very good point.

English teacher

It is not morally, intellectually, or academically useful to engage in nationalistic, racist, sexist, or age-related generalizations about Korea or foreign teachers? When people from vastly different cultures attempt to work together toward a common goal there will be problems. Particularly, when each participant has a different goal.

Parents want their children to succeed, schools want to make a profit, and good teachers sincerely want to improve the English of their students. The main focus in all this ought to be the students. However, it is not always best to ask them what they want, it is better to ask; how can we improve their chances of learning English in the shortest time possible? That is the real acid test.

I have taught EFL in Japan, Taiwan and China to students of all ages. I have friends teaching in Korea who I met during my teacher training who regularly update me with long emails about their experiences. I have read many of the posts in this blog.

I am also an avid reader of international news and find that many news gathering organizations are now in the entertainment business. Hence, every news item in the world is connected to something bizarre. That is sad, because democracy depends on the free flow of information to be a vital political mechanism.

You may be asking yourself why I am discussing news gathering and democracy in an EFL blog. The answer is simple. Real people from all over the world are gathering information here to base a decision about whether to teach in Korea. Show them the bizarre and they will teach elsewhere. That is not a theory, that is a fact based on my own personal experience. I deliberately stayed away from Korea because of these types of stories.

Do the Koreans who post here really want to improve the quality of foreign teachers? If so, please do not allow this forum to degenerate into mindless foreigner bashing. This goes double to the foreign teachers who bash Korea. You have a responsibility to report your experience, good and bad, for the benefit of all. Please respect that right to free speech. Good teachers do, in fact, read what you write.

Please forgive me if I appear to be lecturing from outside your country. I am not there and can only read your posts. I realize that many complaints are real, we have all had challenges at some point.

It would be helpful to post a solution with your problems and complaints. Personally, I am trying to rise above my petty complaints and set a standard of excellence for myself. Complain if you want, you might feel better in the short run, however, the students of Korea will be the ones who will suffer in the long run.

At the top of the thread, Mary Choi wrote:
"Unfortunately here in Korea we get as English teachers the minority bad of those societies.
. . .
b- at home they will be homeless or unemployee living with their parents
. . .
e- many of them never taught a dog how to retrive a stick"

In other words, Mary Choi wrote that the population of English teachers in Korea is composed of rejects from their home countries, who are persons of low worth, and who are unqualified to teach.

n/a wrote:
"im not from your part of the world. i feel sick to hear english teachers giving cultural unsolicited lessons to locals of how to improve their cultures."

n/a, you certainly aren't from my part of the world, because in my part of the world if you call somebody bad and worthless, you are soliciting a reply whether you know it or not, and whether you like it or not.

n/a wrote:
"please clean your house and country first and be grateful that there are countries to offer you a job because your english."

I don't care to clean my big, sloppy house or Ms. Choi's; I'm simply responding to her criticisms of foreign English teachers, and my response must involve pointing out some of the problems with the English industry in Korea. And while I'm grateful to the Greater Being to have a job and food and a roof over my head, I'm not grateful to you or Ms. Choi or any other school owner or manager for these things. You see, in my view, neither you, nor Ms. Choi, nor any school owner or manager is the Greater Being.

n/a wrote: "from the owner of 2 language schools. . . ."
Lol, you didn't have to tell us that; we would've guessed you were probably either an owner or a director.

I've seen a lot of what you're talking about, both in Korea and in Taiwan--discrimination against Asians from English-speaking countries. Recently, my former boss here in Taiwan told me by e-mail that she was looking for a new foreign teacher. I told her about a person who came to the U.S. from Taiwan in early childhood and who possessed native-speaker fluency and was good with kids. She e-mailed back that she was looking for a white person.

I'm at a loss for words about that, except to say that it doesn't make sense.

Have you considered looking for jobs teaching TOEIC and TOEFL? Also, if you're fluent in an Asian language, have you thought about looking for editing, writing, and translating jobs?

razoo

I happen to be outside your borders at this time, but whether outside or inside, I'll discuss that part of your "INTERNAL SOCIAL ISSUES" that landed hard on my big toe all I want, anytime I want. And if YOU don't like my free expression of my opinions, why, there are other forums, sir.

Can we say "denial"?

It's hard to imagine that you can possibly consider your reply as adding anything to the dialogue. If you can argue with Athena's points rationally, do so. there is nor eason to name-call and be offensive. Unless your ideas won't stand up in the dialogue.

Athena,

The only thing dumber and more offensive than your post (s) is the fact that there are other "esl teachers" out there who agree with you. Leave Korea now or Grow ( and shut) up.

Nancy Park
BA (political science, Boston University)

I suggest that everyone who has contributed to this particular thread look and answer the original thread by Mary Choi. I took this opinion apart step-by-step - and what has resulted in response has simply been an attack on the person. (ad hominem) If the opposing view can be stated ina coherent way using facts, then I would like someone to do so. I rather suspect that there is not enough evidence to make the points Mary Choi attempted to make when only facts are used.

So, the fault may not be in Mary Choi's logic, but, rather, in her failure to use any logic at all, but to simply rant out unsupportable, unevidenced vitriole.

Thanks to athena, sinophile, michael

All english teachers look like total #########.

Katy
I've enjoyed association with most of the people I've met in Korea as they are sweet and good-natured. I'm not generalizing in my critique. My main gripe bagan in 1996 when 600,000won was stolen from each of our pensions by the then owners of a hogwan in Expo Park, Taejon. We were given our return airflight tickets and basically told our visas were running out and to get out of the apt. and out of the country. It's a common ploy. The Labour Office would not help. I made my comment about Jacky Choi of Jacky's Recruiting because he pulled a bait-and-switch on me regarding a job in Seoul, wasting my time and money. I dislike conflict and certainly avoid it where I can in my life but I can smell white collar corruption when it comes to contracts. It happens so frequently. The super-rich chaebol president of SK Telecom was released from prison last year. Do we remember what he did (My students have no idea what happened?)? The president of Hyundai Corp. killed himself to hide his multi million money transfer to North Korea. This money transfer was the condition for the meeting of the North and South presidents (The two Koreas Sumit) and won Kim Dae-jung his Nobel Peace Prize. Is Mr. Kim planning on returning his prize to Oslo? All of this was reported in the Korean press and TV world wide, so it is quite public. This useful discussion has made me think that excess collective national pride is a mistake. We can be proud of some things and should disapprove of others, and try to correct them, not deny them. I will not hide problems in my own country. I discuss them. Pride is such a shaky foundation to character anyway. Most religions and philosophies warn against it. Athen has spoken. Now go watch the new movie TROY. I'll be there in spirit. This oral history is one at the foundation of western culture. The names and drama have been passed down thousands of years.

Ok, Mary Choi,
By your horrible post, you seem to have the nasty habit of putting horns, tails, bad breath to people you do not know on a per-person basis. I read other postings in this discussion and I found a similar trend, the postings of the character Athena. Athena for what she wrote is an English teacher leaving Korea shortly, after a decade.
Since,
I was brought not to pre-judge people or cultures, I need to ask you if Athena and Mary Choi are the same person?

FYI: I am not related to the business of English teachers.

Katy Yeong --

Katy and 100 won

Of course you can believe what you like. Is ignorance bliss? Well I am not going to spoon out false compliments, baby food. Is that what you want? The owners and publishers of the Korean Herald are Korean as are the writers and Arirang TV is Korean. The same news items are shown on national Korean TV stations KBS and MBC. I understand enought Korean to follow the news items. Why are you in denial? I have taught at numerous hogwans (several cities) and many colleges and universities in Korea for almost a decade so I do know what is going on in the low grade private universities and the real learning in many hogwans. I don't insult the professors here. They know their precarious situation. They are intimidated by the administration as well. They bow and smile and wear suits and show up on time and know they are playing a game. If they try to change the system of automatically passing 99% of students then they will lose their jobs. That is exactly how the foreigner teachers are treated here. Do you know the turn-over rate of foreign teachers? Naturally, most of the Korean professors care most for their position and salary. Debate is not encouraged in this society, it threatens the autocrats, the new yangban. Without debate people do not develop balanced views. Many of the so-called debates on TV are prearranged, pre-scripted. They are very stiff and artificial. If you don't understand what I am saying I understand.
I'm sorry you cannot see. Your education failed. Travel a bit and see other ways of doing things.

Athena,

What your experience with street cheap English centers have to do with the private universities os korea being a joke. Do you realize that many bright people in korea,asia come from this universities. Also you insult the professors that teach there.
Safe trip,comeback anytime.

Guys like Jacky don't like foreigners to air their dirty laundry but it's all there in the Korean newspapers and even on the sanitized Korean channel Arirang TV. This is Korean media and a free press can reform a society if there is willingness to change. Are you willing to change Jacky?

What's KANSAHAMNIDA anyone?

Neat! Sakana

Dear darling, if you're in Korea presently - there is no: they vs us, us vs they.... just Koreans, definitely Koreans.

Thanks for your contribution!

Nancy Park
BA (political science, Boston University)

Maybe if Korean hagwons were less concerned about "image" and more concerned about "quality" the ESL teaching situation in Korea would improve considerably. Any fresh young white face regardless of qualifications and teaching experience seems to be enough to qualify someone for an ESL teaching position in Korea. It is very unfortunate that quality teachers are discriminated against based on age. One recruiter told me that in three years of recruiting he has never been able to find a position for anyone over the age of 43. I have had numerous replies to applications saying the school was looking for someone under 30 or under 35, that is if they bother to reply at all. Most do not even reply once thet see the scan of my passport page which shows I am 60 years old. As I stated in a previous post here, I am a well qualified professional teacher having taught for 30 years in the same school district in Canada, as well as three years in England before coming to Korea in 2001. I came to Korea for the experience of continuing my teaching career in another culture. It may be true that many young male teachers come here for the women, the soju, the social life and in some cases for the money rather than because they have something valuable to contribute to teaching ESL in Korea. As I am already married, and do not drink, and have a nice pension income in Canada, I can say I am not here for the same reasons as listed above. I am in Korea because I believe have something to offer to ESL teaching and also to broaden my own experiences. If Korea wants to improve the quality of native English teachers here then there is a great need to re-think the general practice of writing off good quality teachers just because they are over 35 years old.

Clara you are right to want a better check on the foreign teachers. You often hire people unseen, just a photo, and take a risk and they in turn do not see the school and managers. Don't blame the recruiters. It is your responsibility too. How do you suggest you improve your success rate?

Clara, just think about what you said. You answered a man who was apologizing - and did it in a nasty way. I have to say that I DON'T DRINK at all. I can not say that for the many Koreans I saw weaving through the streets of Seoul on my way home from my hagwon at midnight.

And while on that topic, why are children sent to school at that awful time of the night? If the Korean public schools wwere so good, why can't they do the job during the day?

Korea desperately needs the help of foreign teachers- if they didn't, they wouldn't hire them.

Enough said to Mary, Clara, Baek ,and their ilk.

To my many Korean friends and dedicated students, I say we are doing our best to counteract the negatives of people like Mary, Clara, and Baek.

It is a difficult job.

Athena, all I can say is amen. :)

wow- that's all Korea needs- more sexism. It wasn't because the teachers were male that you had problems, Clare Kim. It was because they were who they are. No sex(or race or religion or nationality) is perfect. I wonder- were the males who caused problems tall? (then, no more tall people!) were they bald? Then no more bald people. ow about right0handed? then hire only lefties.

see how ridiculous this is? see how ridiculous you are being?

Dear Mary, I am listening. Give us more time to clean our act. Our school is now a better place since we did not renewed the male teachers contract. We really like 5 of our 7 female native teachers. I am here because I am looking for 2 other female teachers to replace the 2 that contracts is expiring. Inch by inch we get there.

With care and love,

Clara Kim
Songpa-Ku Seoul

Apology accepted. Pls enroll now in a volunteer community program and help to clean the streets of Seoul for the next 4 years for all the beer bottles your colleagues teachers will/are dumping. Welcome! happy wedding to and your wife to be, make her happy and proud.

Clara Kim
Songpa-Ku Seoul

Sakana's post took a tiny part of my response to Mary Choi and made it seem as if that was the gist and,in fact,entirety of my response. Those of you who congratulated her for a great post might just want to check out what it was she was responding to - her post might have been great if the post I ahd made actually was like a she claimed it to be.

I answered Mary Choi point-by-point. Sakana said that I claimed to have this experience teaching in Asia (basically, Sakana implied that I was lying- which certainly makes her post hateful and - as it turns out - inaccurate as well.

In what culture is ignoring the gist and entirety of what someone says in responding to it acceptable? In what culture is calling(or implying) that someone is a liar with absoulutely no evidence(because there is none) acceptable? In what culture is answering a person's rant point by point unacceptable?

Please tell me if such a culture exists.

Note: If anyone thinks they are being cute and says the USA, I will just point out that the JAPANESE government has never apologized for their invasions of KOREA, their occupation of CHINA, or for PEAL HARBOR.

I think many of you don't know the facts about illegal aliens in Korea. The VAST majority are Korean speaking, ethnic Koreans from China (and Russia). How do I know this? I read the Korean Times.

to all the native teachers here ranting. before you come to korea read your own country immigration code a see how it applies to foreigners working illegaly or overstaying in your country without proper documentations.

your temporary stay in korea under a e2 visa is TEMPORARY, same as for any foreigner applying for a h2 visa in the us or other visas in other countries you come from.

during you temporary stay in korea working under a valid e2 visa, you have not rights to talk about unions and all the full rights native koreans have. If for any reason you can not renew your visa at your contract's end, then go back to your country immediately. also if the owner of the school does not give you the promised e2 visa, find another job quickly as you can and get the visa. any school that does not give you the e2 visa can not report you to immigration or claim that you breached your contract. so be resourceful and move fast to get an e2 visa in any case.

by overstaying in korea without proper docs:
you become an ECONOMIC REFUGEE same as the raftboats coming from Laos with 700 hundreds people aboard. so please accept the true as nobody as i know in korea wants to put you down of mistreat you for nothing. the more you keep dening this and not accepting to take your place as a quite and humble ECONOMIC REFUGEE, the more you create hundreds of mary chois.

if you have bad experiences with previous employers,its happens, we have our share of rotten apples as any society. just keep moving forward, get your proper docs, and look at us as your friends, not your enemy masters.

I like to hold my head up and be proud of who I am
But they won't let my secret go untold.
I paid the debt I owed them but they're still not satisfied
Now I'm a branded man out in the cold.

When they let me out of prison, I held my head up high
Determined I will rise above the shame
But no matter where I travel, the black mark follows me
Now, I'm branded with a number on my name.

Wonderful post Sakana!

teaching in Pusan (3rd year).

im not from your part of the world. i feel sick to hear english teachers giving cultural unsolicited lessons to locals of how to improve their cultures. please clean your house and country first and be grateful that there are countries to offer you a job because your english. from the owner of 2 language schools in south america.

not everyone who comes to america are legal, humble or respectful either.

i feel that america deals with far more immigrants, workers and students than korea does. (or ever will.)

america also has to deal with diversity on a grand scale.

i'll put this point to you as well...

if a decent person of color (non-white) applies to teach at one of your nations educational institutions, but unfortunately is turned down by the administration, upon their "immediate" review of the applicants PHOTO...

...then i ask you, just how humble or respectful is this?

set me straight...does this prejudice and discrimination prevail in your nations education facilities?

it seems to me as though korean society wants the freedom to discriminate against some diversities of people, yet on the same hand, demand foreigners show respect for them and their social standards.

like the old saying goes..."you can't have your cake and eat too."

i'm optimistic though, and would welcome people from your country, offering me a fresh perspective on this matter.

i grew up respecting people, and find that this is the best way to interact with a wide variety of people.

...and there are qualities about korean people that i'm sure are delightful and full of color.

...but i'm an idealist

Mary,
i'm sincerely sorry and want to apologize to you, for sounding too harsh.
it's not the way for people to resolve issues.

i stand correcting my own mistakes in manners.

please understand that i feel you and Michael both brought out very good issues, from your own points of view.

you did mention that only good teachers should be welcomed in korea.

i just want to ask, how can a society expect good teachers, while making racist policies on hiring teachers in the first place?

had it ever dawned on people in the schools in korea, that some really good teachers might be those, who the schools tend to discriminate against?

many people of a wide range of diversities, have been hurt by many factors in their own societies, and unfortunately in foreign societies as well.

not everyone teaching in foreign countries are people who can't get a job in their own countries.

...maybe some, but that would be an over-statement to say that all foreigners teaching fall under this category of the unemployable.

here in america, many people immigrate here for work, education or a better chance at life.
by doing this, should people in american society, view such individuals as losers from their own countries of origin?

i guess you're a lovely lady who has a kind heart, and teally doesn't mean to hurt anyone or insult them.

you have good reasons for the statement you made.
i can respect them.

Mary Choi

Have you never witnessed the violence in Korean highschools? I have. The beatings with sticks producing bruises, the punching on the head with knuckles, pinching and twisting of skin on the arms and face, the kicking. Students are made to kneel on a hard floor for 30 mins. to an hour and would be crippled at the end of this torture. Torture it is. When I taught in Gwangju (1998) this was a common thing and we foreign teachers would go home and not sleep from the stress. This culture of violence in schools infects students too. They are equally violent with their classmates (boys and girls). The gym teacher was even giving " bee resin medical treatments" with a reused needle to the girl students in his private office. This was going on at the height of the world AIDS epidemic. He came at me with the same dirty needle till I shouted at him. I left the highschool at the end of my contract and hear that things have improved nationally as parents are complaining more. Violence in schools was common in western schools too when my grandfather was a boy, 80 years ago. Postive social change takes a long time.

Alan is right. The Korean schools are racist. And I am white and I do recognize that fact, Alan. I am also 50 and Korean schools are also ageist.

Michael,
LOT'S OF LAUGHS !
right on! you hit the nail on the head.
thank you...thank you, for melting Mary the angry korean. (^_^)

kudos!

Are you truly serious in saying Mary's post is great? It's a rant and easy to pick apart, which I already did.

Sakana,

Your post is the most clear, objective, and honest post I have seen in a long time. We need more people to bring this question to the public dialogue without the fear of being labeled a anti-foreigner in Asia.

Thank you!

George

Great post Mary!

Your line:

"c- mental cases - violent among them abound"

Right on target!!

The Best to You!

Jill Smith

All societies have a majority good and a minority bad. Unfortunately here in Korea we get as English teachers the minority bad of those societies.

a- most of the teachers in Korea can't even adapt to their societies
b- at home they will be homeless or unemployee living with their parents
c- mental cases - violent among them abound
d- most of them are fly in and they don't have any money at the arrival time
e- many of them never taught a dog how to retrive a stick
f- all they do is complain about our schools, but no a word a the hundreds working part time ilegally and avoiding taxes or serving time in our jails

This list can go, on and on

Solution: I read soon there will be a governmement online data base for schools and parents to find out which of these teachers has previous violent records in other schools (in Korea), alcohol and drugs problems.

I do agree in order for societies to improve and succeed, open minds and borders is a must, but to accomplish that infections have to be cure and heal first.

All the good teachers out there, welcome to Korea, all the bad treachers, please leave soon.

[Edited by Administrator (admin) Sat, 14 May 2011, 02:59 AM]