> Other than the fact I am on quite a lot more than 700USD a month, I
> am not in China for the money. Back 'home' I was on more money than
> you will ever be, but I didn't like the lifestyle. I like living in
> Asia. I have more than enough savings to get me by if I decide to go
> somewhere else.

> Who said that I was English?

> And WHY would I be envious of America for craps sake? I have been
> there enough to know that that is one place I DON'T want to live.

> Engage brain before spouting BS please.

Let's re-cap here, you're NOT in China for the money, but you are "on quite a lot more than (4000rmb) a month", so therefore you justify attacking anyone that criticizes schools for limiting that same amount (4000rmb) to 'other' teachers. OK, interesting....

...Then you state, "back home", you were "on" more money than I "will ever be". On that point I will agree with you because I have never been "on" the dole!

And why have you been to America so many times if you HATE America soooo much?!
Oh, I know, you must be one of those "on the dole/teacher/world traveler/intellectual" types that make sooo much money traveling to and from America in order to tell Americans how much you hate them, am I right? That sounds like a great job! Can I get the same in YOUR country?

38 (and half) years old and this is the best you can do!? No wonder you "didn't like the lifestyle" back home...
....YOU COULDN'T EXIST BACK HOME!

> I hate to break your bubble, pal, but in the China I live in,
> Americans are the least liked, personality-wise. Students constantly
> complain to me about Americans & dont trust them. Perhaps you
> just don't realize it because your students are too polite to tell
> you. Chinese students are taught to respect teachers, so they try to
> do it & they do get used to their American teachers after they
> know them.

> In my 2 year experience, most schools, teachers, students,
> principals, & parents prefer Canadians first. They say they are
> friendly, easygoing, & not as egotistical as Americans. They also
> learn British English in public schools, so they are a little more
> comfortable with Brits.

> I agree that now students want to learn American English, but thats
> not because they respect American people. It's more because of the
> "power" America seems to show to the world.

..THAT'S why you "hear" so much about 'Those Americans'! I too engage in such revelry since or "Great Democracy" choose a sock puppet for a leader!
Oh, and by the way 'sweetheart', if you are a "native" speaker of English, then you hail from a "Christian" country that SUPPORTS "Those Yanks" and every dollar you take from THEM! AMAZING isn't it?!
Nobody is breaking down the doors to learn English because Canada or EEEEngland is an economic world dominance!
The pressure it is to be an a citizen of The United States of America these days is most great due to the fact that far too many Americans have fallen victim to ideology and have ignored the TRUE value of democracy and freedom!
All I have left to say is...if you hate American "values".........TAKE A NUMBER LIKE THE REST OF THE WORLD!

The reason it SEEMS that way is because WE have a population of
> nearly 300.000.000 and OUR accent is far easier for Chinese people to
> listen to and understand. So we "Yanks" are recruited FAR
> more. THAT is why there seems to be SOOOO many whiners here!

I hate to break your bubble, pal, but in the China I live in, Americans are the least liked, personality-wise. Students constantly complain to me about Americans & dont trust them. Perhaps you just don't realize it because your students are too polite to tell you. Chinese students are taught to respect teachers, so they try to do it & they do get used to their American teachers after they know them.

In my 2 year experience, most schools, teachers, students, principals, & parents prefer Canadians first. They say they are friendly, easygoing, & not as egotistical as Americans. They also learn British English in public schools, so they are a little more comfortable with Brits.

I agree that now students want to learn American English, but thats not because they respect American people. It's more because of the "power" America seems to show to the world.

> I didn't just "come here", I was recruited to come here
> with a pre-paid ticket, a signed contract and work visa already in
> hand, that's a big difference little buck-a-roo.

> Lots of "foreigners", as you put it, are 20 somethings
> fresh from a university, eager to open their new-born eyes and still
> living on daddy's stipends. THAT'S why a guy like you doesn't HAVE
> any bills to pay, you haven't DONE anything yet! It's also one of the
> primary reasons the education system here is so fouled up, they hire
> kids to teach kids, NOT professional, experienced and INFORMED*
> teachers!

> Maybe ALL the teachers in your school are dwarfs too. Myself I am 6
> feet, 230lbs and yes I am big. It comes from lugging 200lbs of gear
> around as a firefighter for 5 years. When you get a little older,
> maybe you too will develope some muscles.

> Yes, there are plenty of cheap places to eat in MY country too. And
> have YOU ever heard of botulinus or hepatitus? (That's why I don't
> eat in cheap places, NO MATTER WHERE THEY ARE!) And who made it a law
> you have to eat only Chinese made food? My dietary habits are
> different, just like all the "foreigners" in MY country
> that refuse to eat local food, but opt for the more expensive
> IMPORTED food!

> *This one is WAY too easy junior. You've convinced me, I'll stop
> buying a REAL newspaper and start ready the China Daily, maybe The
> National Inquirer or some edition published by Rupert Murdoch! And
> why? Because I want to be as informed as you!
> And yes you sarcastic little snot, I HAVE heard of the internet! Have
> YOU ever heard of time management and traveling to and from work on a
> commuter train?!

> A moaning Yank? YOU sound like one of those Brits that suffers from
> "Lost Empire Syndrome". I have listened to and read
> comments by people of ALL nationalities complain about many aspects
> of living and working with-in the Chinese culture and system.

> The reason it SEEMS that way is because WE have a population of
> nearly 300.000.000 and OUR accent is far easier for Chinese people to
> listen to and understand. So we "Yanks" are recruited FAR
> more. THAT is why there seems to be SOOOO many whiners here!

> China isn't alone in this, look at Thailand. The same excuses and
> reasons are prevalent here as well. Schools are first and foremost
> businesses. Schools cry out for quality teachers, the Ministry of
> Education insist on qualified teachers, but then limit schools to
> paying teachers low salaries, that can't compete with international
> schools that pay far more.

Yes, I have heard the same about Thailand. It makes it most difficult for the students due to the constant turnover.

> Thai teachers get jealous of foriegn teachers' salaries and
> continually snipe and complain, they forget the social safety net the
> local teachers have that foriegn teachers do not have.

The same about jealousy is true where I am as well. Especially if you are successful at getting students to learn rapidly. Many of the Chinese schools where I am have a very rigid teaching method that doesn't allow for independant thought. That makes it difficult for older students to attempt simple interactive conversation exercises in the classroom. Fear of NOT being like the others weighs heavily many times. So if you can turn that around, teachers often feel inferior because they aren't allowed the same leeway in teaching metheods as a "foreigner".

Good luck!

> Hey, if you don't like it don't come here. No one is forcing you.

I didn't just "come here", I was recruited to come here with a pre-paid ticket, a signed contract and work visa already in hand, that's a big difference little buck-a-roo.

> Lots of foreigners don't just come for the money you know. The
> experience is all part of it. Many DON'T have lots of bills to pay
> back 'home'. I don't.

Lots of "foreigners", as you put it, are 20 somethings fresh from a university, eager to open their new-born eyes and still living on daddy's stipends. THAT'S why a guy like you doesn't HAVE any bills to pay, you haven't DONE anything yet! It's also one of the primary reasons the education system here is so fouled up, they hire kids to teach kids, NOT professional, experienced and INFORMED* teachers!

> You must be talking about a different average to the people I know.
> All the teacher's in my school can find clothes no problem. Of
> course, if you are a big fatso, well maybe.

Maybe ALL the teachers in your school are dwarfs too. Myself I am 6 feet, 230lbs and yes I am big. It comes from lugging 200lbs of gear around as a firefighter for 5 years. When you get a little older, maybe you too will develope some muscles.

> There are plenty of cheap places to buy local food. And have you
> heard of COOKING??

Yes, there are plenty of cheap places to eat in MY country too. And have YOU ever heard of botulinus or hepatitus? (That's why I don't eat in cheap places, NO MATTER WHERE THEY ARE!) And who made it a law you have to eat only Chinese made food? My dietary habits are different, just like all the "foreigners" in MY country that refuse to eat local food, but opt for the more expensive IMPORTED food!

> What newspaper are you buying for 23RMB??? You can get the China
> Daily or 21st Century for 1 or 2RMB. Plus there is this little thing
> called the internet. You may have heard of it.

*This one is WAY too easy junior. You've convinced me, I'll stop buying a REAL newspaper and start ready the China Daily, maybe The National Inquirer or some edition published by Rupert Murdoch! And why? Because I want to be as informed as you!
And yes you sarcastic little snot, I HAVE heard of the internet! Have YOU ever heard of time management and traveling to and from work on a commuter train?!

> Are you from America? You sound like one of these moaning yanks* who
> come over here then complain that this place is all different from
> the US. Of course it is, it is CHINA!

A moaning Yank? YOU sound like one of those Brits that suffers from "Lost Empire Syndrome". I have listened to and read comments by people of ALL nationalities complain about many aspects of living and working with-in the Chinese culture and system.

> * I don't mean to say that all Americans are like this, so please
> don't jump on me for this statement. I have met some guys from the US
> who are great. However, it does SEEM that the people who have
> problems over here are mostly Americans. Sorry if I have tarred
> someone with one brush here. :-O :-)

The reason it SEEMS that way is because WE have a population of nearly 300.000.000 and OUR accent is far easier for Chinese people to listen to and understand. So we "Yanks" are recruited FAR more. THAT is why there seems to be SOOOO many whiners here!

Hey, if you don't like it don't come here. No one is forcing you.

Lots of foreigners don't just come for the money you know. The experience is all part of it. Many DON'T have lots of bills to pay back 'home'. I don't.

You must be talking about a different average to the people I know. All the teacher's in my school can find clothes no problem. Of course, if you are a big fatso, well maybe.

There are plenty of cheap places to buy local food. And have you heard of COOKING??

What newspaper are you buying for 23RMB??? You can get the China Daily or 21st Century for 1 or 2RMB. Plus there is this little thing called the internet. You may have heard of it.

Are you from America? You sound like one of these moaning yanks* who come over here then complain that this place is all different from the US. Of course it is, it is CHINA!

* I don't mean to say that all Americans are like this, so please don't jump on me for this statement. I have met some guys from the US who are great. However, it does SEEM that the people who have problems over here are mostly Americans. Sorry if I have tarred someone with one brush here. :-O :-)

> I find it quite humorous that so many schools that want REAL teachers
> only offer 3000-5000rmb monthly and then claim that it is maybe 5
> times what "local Chinese" people make. Then a statement
> usually follows claiming that it is very easy for
> "foreigners" to live on that sum of renumeration.

> First of all, MOST English teachers are NOT "local"
> Chinese. Because we ARE "foreigners", we must return to the
> REAL world. We have commitments and bills to pay in the REAL world.
> We DON'T have a family/friends support system we can use to help us
> through difficult times while in China (like when a Chinese school
> DOESN'T pay what they agreed upon, forcing us to spend what little
> money we have saved!).

> Secondly, if you are an average western male, and this is important,
> NOTHING fits in China! I can't shop in the same stores as Chinese
> because I am 5 inches taller and 70lbs heavier than the average
> Chinese male. My shoe size is 47-48 by Chinese measurement. I MUST
> shop in the expensive department stores if I want to wear something
> that DOESN'T look like a factory reject or is 2 sizes too small!

> Thirdly, the "delicious" Chinese food we are often offered
> for "free" ususally ends up making us sick 50% of the time.
> If I want to eat AND work the next day I must have western quality
> food. That means GREATER expense for cooking and dining out!

> Lastly, teaching isn't merely IMPARTING knowledge, but also keeping
> ABREAST of the lastest information and events. That means buying
> newspapers, magazines etc. if I am to have some sort of dialogue and
> interaction in classes where students LIKE to talk about various
> topics and events. Once again this means GREATER costs than
> "local Chinese" (a newspaper alone costs me 23rmb per
> edition).

> If Chinese schools want GOOD teachers, then pay GOOD wages. There
> DOESN'T seem to be a problem with those same schools making 'GOOD'
> profits from English teaching, so part with some of those profits if
> you want quality teaching.

> Thank you

> I find it quite humorous that so many schools that want REAL teachers
> only offer 3000-5000rmb monthly and then claim that it is maybe 5
> times what "local Chinese" people make. Then a statement
> usually follows claiming that it is very easy for
> "foreigners" to live on that sum of renumeration.

> First of all, MOST English teachers are NOT "local"
> Chinese. Because we ARE "foreigners", we must return to the
> REAL world. We have commitments and bills to pay in the REAL world.
> We DON'T have a family/friends support system we can use to help us
> through difficult times while in China (like when a Chinese school
> DOESN'T pay what they agreed upon, forcing us to spend what little
> money we have saved!).

> Secondly, if you are an average western male, and this is important,
> NOTHING fits in China! I can't shop in the same stores as Chinese
> because I am 5 inches taller and 70lbs heavier than the average
> Chinese male. My shoe size is 47-48 by Chinese measurement. I MUST
> shop in the expensive department stores if I want to wear something
> that DOESN'T look like a factory reject or is 2 sizes too small!

> Thirdly, the "delicious" Chinese food we are often offered
> for "free" ususally ends up making us sick 50% of the time.
> If I want to eat AND work the next day I must have western quality
> food. That means GREATER expense for cooking and dining out!

> Lastly, teaching isn't merely IMPARTING knowledge, but also keeping
> ABREAST of the lastest information and events. That means buying
> newspapers, magazines etc. if I am to have some sort of dialogue and
> interaction in classes where students LIKE to talk about various
> topics and events. Once again this means GREATER costs than
> "local Chinese" (a newspaper alone costs me 23rmb per
> edition).

> If Chinese schools want GOOD teachers, then pay GOOD wages. There
> DOESN'T seem to be a problem with those same schools making 'GOOD'
> profits from English teaching, so part with some of those profits if
> you want quality teaching.

> Thank you

China isn't alone in this, look at Thailand. The same excuses and reasons are prevalent here as well. Schools are first and foremost businesses. Schools cry out for quality teachers, the Ministry of Education insist on qualified teachers, but then limit schools to paying teachers low salaries, that can't compete with international schools that pay far more.

Thai teachers get jealous of foriegn teachers' salaries and continually snipe and complain, they forget the social safety net the local teachers have that foriegn teachers do not have.