Ellis:

Interesting view of the China-US relationship. Thanks for sharing.

You are right about us all being for a similar purpose. I agree that those who are not, will be found out in the end.

I didn't intend to make this a competition between Americans vs Canadians. We are neighbors & have alot to be thankful to the US for.

From the viewpoint of students here, our accent is the same. (I agree there are differences, even within each country, but students can't seem to hear it). Students in our school prefer "American English". Canadians actually do speak "American English" wouldn't you say? Our city has had teachers from all native English speaking countries as well as some from africa, india, & south america. I know what the students in this city, state as their preference.

Again, my original thoughts on this subject were to say that none of us really should care who is preferred here. I find it hard to believe that someone who is so absorbed in how much greater they are then all of us (chinasyndrome), could actually live & cope with life here in China. It really isn't like at home. Some bad, some good, some better, some worse. Life is interesting, to say the least. I'm just not fooling myself into thinking it is the easiest place to live. I deal with each day as it comes & find something positive in it.

I choose to concentrate on the good & better that I see here. Its the only way I can live happily.

I hope "chinasyndrome's" students have alot more tolerance then he does, if this is the attitude he presents in his classes.

> Hey, "CANADIAN TEACHER" .... this is "MARTIAN
> TEACHER" (according to my FIRST wife, that is)! NO, NO ... it's
> ELLIS. Thanks for your interesting post, Brother!

> Granted, all nationalities on this God's green earth have their
> faults aplenty. There are, of course, some places which offer more
> favorable living conditions than others, albeit this proposition has
> its fair share of ifs, ands, and buts, e.g., what the citizenry of a
> particular society are accustomed to enjoying as a living standard;
> how hard they have to work to achieve their personal goals; and most
> important of all, whether one is afforded freedom of creativity in
> both the areas of ideology and performance. Now, each country has its
> rightful share of loyalty due, but when one land decides to compete
> with another, it is essential that they BOTH operate on the same wave
> length. Socialism vs. Communism seems feasible, whereas when
> Communism attempts to vie with Capitalism, that is, indeed, a horse
> of a different color (like my FIRST wife ... especially the HORSE
> part!). This all brings us to the China vs. USA Story.

> Prior to having accepted a position in the PRC for RMB 6,000/month (c
> $750/mo.), I was earning $3118/MO. (RMB 26,800/mo.) as a full-time
> TOEFL/TOEIC instructor. I guess it would be safe to assume that I
> didn't travel all that distance for the money! Prior to having left
> the USA, I was already cognizant of the living conditions and
> cultural differences due to an earlier (2-month) visit I had paid
> Beijing. What I was NOT aware of, however, was the necessity of
> CAREFULLY checking into each offer from China ... particularly both
> the school and its management. Mae culpa! Mea culpa! Let's merely
> state that, like so many others, I was an *ss*ole (you should hear my
> FIRST wife on THAT issue!!!), and voluntarily turned my gargantuan
> 'gluteus maximus' in just the right direction for a monumental
> professional cramming ceremony! Let's forget for a moment that each
> culture has its fair share of con artists, and, at my age, I should
> have known better. But on that score, we can at least draw a
> similarity between the USA and China. Likewise, it's somewhat
> difficult to ignore the US's rather close commercial relationship
> with the PRC. Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, folks ... today it seems there
> isn't one consumer item that doesn't bear a "Made in China"
> label! It would appear that we're in bed together -- at least from an
> economic point of view. AHA! Another similarity! And, now, we have
> the national 'let's ALL learn English' program, soliciting the timely
> assistance of soooooo many English instructors -- especially those
> sporting a Yankee accent!!! Criminy! It would appear as if there's
> actually not too much of a difference between us. But, this is
> actually where the similarity ends and the friction takes over -- not
> only between the Chinese and American instructors, but also between
> the Yanks, Canadians, and Brits, despite the fact we all have the
> same bloody objective: TO TEACH ENGLISH. Gadzooks and little fishes,
> folks, from the looks of some of the board exchanges, one would think
> that World War III is in progress! Mind you, I can understand a
> personal conflict between two dudes, but questions of (1) which
> nationality better qualifies an English-speaking instructor (2) who
> is better loved by the Chinese students (3) who is the least
> money-grubbing of all the ESL teachers and (4) who has the greater
> "freedom" in his/her land. Barring the incompetents who,
> unfortunately, DO manage to sneak in under the rug, it would be safe
> to assume that everyone else has an acceptable degree of know-how to
> offer. Yes, there ARE whiners present, but does this nefarious
> tendency really detract from their effectiveness in the classroom? If
> not, then they should be tolerated, especially in view of China's
> dire need for ESL instructors. Incidentally, right here in the USA, I
> teach at a school where at least HALF the student body is Chinese or
> Taiwanese. They don't seem to dislike America or their instructors.
> In fact, according to a recent survey I conducted, at least 70% of
> them said they wanted to remain here permanently! In conclusion, if
> you like your life in China, it's a good thing you're there. If you
> like teaching in China, but disapprove of the overall conditions, TRY
> to discover ways to improve the status quo and regularly suggest same
> to the management. And, if you're there 'just for the fun of it,'
> realize that you one day stand a good chance of being discovered and
> ... well, let me state it the form of a magnificent adage from the
> belated TV show, "Maude," to wit, "God is gonna getcha
> for THAT!"

> Loosen up, everybody. Competitiveness really shouldn't play any kind
> of rle, especially when we're all in it for basically the same
> aesthetic rewards. More importantly, TOLERANCE is a great lesson
> which is better taught through example rather than B.S. Am I right,
> or am I right?

> Peace,
> Ellis

Thanks Ellis.

I hope you all realize that my comments in replying to the original post were not meant to say that life is horrible here in China. What I was thinking of is how different it is here.

I'm sure all teachers here will agree...In the classroom it is hard sometimes to adjust discussions so that these students, who are not from a free country, can still find a way to form original ideas & express them. I was frustrated in the beginning(as all of us are at times), but then I had to accept that students in China are taught differently then us. They are meant to follow the one, right answer to things, not vary too much in ideas.

AND...I am not saying its wrong. From what I see it is exactly right for China. It is history, it can't be ignored or changed. I respect it & see the positive results the Chinese education system has produced.

AGAIN. let me say, I AM happy here. I do love being with the people in my classes. I have met some amazing people here. I will continue to enjoy learning about a different way of life, as do the students.

TO ELLIS..."Christ on a bicycle"...thats one hilarious line. LMAO. Thanks for bringing laughter into this discussion.

I look forward to reading your future comments.
====================

> HEY! Christ on a bicycle ... what the hell IS transpiring on this
> board?SUCH #%!K*^G HOSTILITY!!! First the other character, now YOU!
> Although I'm not Canadian, "Canadian Teacher" has a perfect
> right to voice his opinion in this forum, be it positive or negative.
> The next thing you know, a band of "brown shirts" will be
> paying him "a midnight visit," demanding that he shut his
> foreign-devil-puss or accept their invitation for "a permanent
> vacation!" I don't know what your nationality is, George, but as
> for "Canadian Teacher," ... "HIM FRIEND ... NO ENEMY
> ... NO WANTUM HURT YOU!"

> UGH!
> Ellis

> "Canadian Teacher"

> You may use either your name or a screen name. Please not
> "Canadian teacher". You sound unhappy, you probably were
> unhappy in Canada. Not all Canadian teachers in China think the way
> you do. If you don't like your job -- LEAVE IT.

> George T.

==========================================================================

HEY! Christ on a bicycle ... what the hell IS transpiring on this board?SUCH #%!K*^G HOSTILITY!!! First the other character, now YOU! Although I'm not Canadian, "Canadian Teacher" has a perfect right to voice his opinion in this forum, be it positive or negative. The next thing you know, a band of "brown shirts" will be paying him "a midnight visit," demanding that he shut his foreign-devil-puss or accept their invitation for "a permanent vacation!" I don't know what your nationality is, George, but as for "Canadian Teacher," ... "HIM FRIEND ... NO ENEMY ... NO WANTUM HURT YOU!"

UGH!
Ellis

Yeah...We canadians are from a free country. We are not used to having others force us what to think. Perhaps you would be happier in a discussion with other locals that dont appreciate what life is like for foreigners here.

> ===========================

> A-H-E-M, Shao Lin ...

> Are speaking officially for the GOVERNMENT OF THE PRC??? It sure
> SOUNDED like it. Or is it, perhaps, the opinion of the COLLECTIVE,
> Comrade??? WHATEVER the case, it certainly sounds as if you are --
> just a teensy bit, mind you -- overstepping your authority on this
> board. Giving advice is one thing, but DICTATING to people HOW they
> should think is quite a different tale. Think about it, Man.

> Cheers,

> Ellis

> TO SHAO LIN:

> Just so you know, there ARE many teachers in CHina, from many
> different countries, that are here to teach kids english, not to be
> involved in politics. Perhaps you would be more satisfied in a chat
> forum about politics, not making accusations towards and offending
> honest, hardworking, caring teachers. This is the esl teachers
> board...not the expat political discussion board.

> Be more careful when pointing fingers.

First off, Canadian teacher. Don't take offence with my post. No offence was intended... Plenty of political stuff written here about China. Visitors meddling in our internal affairs.

It has come to my attention that some people have taken offence to my posts. Just please, dont come at me with massive doses of hypocrisy. I make no excuses about my opinions, nor do I expect everyone to agree with them. English teachers are welcome to China if they are coming to teach English. If you are not happy here, Please consider leaving. Respect for ourselves guides our morals; respect for others guides our manners.

Shao Lin