TEACHERS DISCUSSION FORUM
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#1 Parent Ellis E. Seamone - 2004-08-09
JACK, JACK...KEEP THAT UPPER LIP AS STIFF AS HELL!!!

My dear Jack,

I truly enjoyed reading your post of the 7th ... and please, I am not the ONLY one who has the powers of inspiration in his keyboard: Yea! Yea! YOU are a Langston Hughes ... (why not) a John Steinbeck(?) ... in that department! Your having discovered China as a source of inspiration for your writing is a wondrous accomplishment, I dare say, albeit I wound up more adversly affected by my brief but catastrophic experience last summer. That you have succeeded in pushing all adversity aside for the sake of your objective is TRULY a quantity for which I feel no slight envy. As for discrimination (of ANY kind!), it is truly as hateful here in the USA as it is in China ... or ANY other part of the globe, for that matter. What makes the oppressors feel so damned superior is something which has perplexed me for many years. Prior to entering the ESL field as a full-time activity, I had spent a good 20 years in the music business -- in rock-n-roll as well as in classical -- so, I had an unaltered bird's-eye view of what was transpiring with Adam and all his (bloody) issue. This was the early '60s, and that period, a few short years before the Civil Rights Act (1964), was certainly NO PICNIC to live through, yet it certainly seemed like a windfall to those blacks who had earlier endured much harsher times. Fortunately, over the years, conditions have gotten much better on this end, though we are all obviously chagrined (if not embarrassed) by the relatively slow progress in that area by so many of the more "traditionally biased" lands of this globe. But, as you have so astutely concluded, there is no sense in even making an attempt to change the ways of the world. They are all part of the Great Metamorphosis which, regrettably, has always proceeded on its own bloody time schedule.

Jack, as for your having a job in-hand before the next semester, OF COURSE you will succeed! You are obviously an hombre with serious and undiluted pedagogical intentions. The educational system of the PRC should learn to appreciate all that you represent ... that is, if THEIR intentions truly jibe with their widely-advertised desire to improve the quality of English learning throughout the land. We have heard our fair share of whining, indeed, albeit there have always been the completely legitimate critiques to consider. WHATEVER the case, it MUST be an essential step of ANY program as unique and daring as that of the PRC to SERIOUSLY consider one hell of a lot more than merely the presence of its imported "foreign specialists." After all, English is OUR native tongue, while, so far as I know, all the leading texbooks and exam papers have be composed by blokes such as we! WHY, therefore, is there any argument? Granted, there some of us recruits who aren't educationally fit to teach bloody PRE-borns, let alone college-level students! On the other hand, the preponderance of those instructors hired are eminently qualified and arrive in China with the most progressive of attitudes. IT IS THEY whose enthusiasm must be ever stimulated and not allowed to die a horrible death through neglect. THIS, I dare say, is the very CRUX of whatever problems exist today regarding the question of contentment amongst foreign ESL personnel in the PRC. But, all we CAN do at this juncture is (with a broad smile) merely remind them of that fact. All else will stir up hostilities even worse than has heretofore been the case.

To you, dear Jack, and to all others who venture to China with only the purest of intentions, accompanied by a sincere desire to contribute to the cause of universal communication through English ... I salute you! But always remember: In the midst of deceit, WHENEVER PRESENT, one cannot afford to be silent. It is only acknowledgement of wholesale suffering that will ever move governments to expunge unreasonable conditions for the sake of satisfying the needs of all contributing personnel, be they domestic or international. And ... THAT'S A FACT, JACK!

Love to all,
Ellis

#2 Parent Jack Kanoi - 2004-08-08
Re: chinese schools are not aware - yet there is hope

>
> ==========================================================================

> Mike ... we meet again!

> You mention your just having reached your 42nd birthday. Happy
> Birthday, "youngster!" I, myself, have just hit 67, while
> I'm still hard at it in the ESL biz. WHY? Because I LOVE IT! B-U-T,
> when our dear colleague discusses hardships endured in our field
> because of her color, while you and I because of our age, we must
> make note of ANOTHER malady, namely prejudice, which must be stamped
> out in the international ESL marketplace. But, as you say, an
> employer has a right to hire only that person who exemplifies his/her
> vision of "the perfect instructor." Of course, being so
> uncompromisingly restrictive (hard-headed, if you wish) in one's
> hiring practices most assuredly presents a serious risk of passing
> over the TRUE talent that could help a school grow. Once again, that
> is the employer's prerogative. And, Mike, as you also quite
> appropriately state the case, REJECTION surely pays no homage to
> one's confidence, let alone his/her years of devotion to the field of
> language communication. In view of this reality, it is paramount
> that, with each personal humiliation encountered, one build a
> stronger outer shell which will withstand the injury of
> disappointment while NOT destroying one iota of continued interest in
> teaching. After all, to my knowledge, no one ever experienced life as
> a breeze ... except, possibly, those poor slobs who, by being
> constantly exposed to such "breeze," eventually died of the
> flu!

> Keep the faith, folks, and we'll get through EACH and EVERY
> adversity!

> Love to all,
> Ellis

Excellent, Ellis! You inspire hope and inspiration. There is some truth in what King Lee said about discrimination but, I believe, for every such 'discriminator' there is one who is open-minded - well, almost!
I have been at the receiving end of discrimination long enough (my esl career in China being nearly 3 years long) to agree but at the same time there are those who look beyond my nationality and colour of skin. And that means, there is some hope yet. One can't change the world - at least not easily and there's no point in allowing the ways of the world to get under one's skin - pun unintended.
Though I am a published author, and in China at that, I have had piles of rejection letters and the ignominy of not even receiving a polite 'no, thank you' to my applications that I could drown myself and my readers in vatfuls of ink diluted in tears. My struggle continues as I try to locate a new university for the next term.
The new term / academic year is close and yet I have no acceptable offer in hand. But, Ellis, I know I will be in China (a country I love to experience and write about) by the first week of September, contract in hand, my woes a thing of the past, my tears dried for another year/ six months.
Best wishes to all those who love teaching, who love experiencing a different culture, despite some unpleasant experiences. Best wishes to those whose hearts are full of joy of living, travelling, understanding, giving and receiving!
Jack

#3 Parent Ellis E. Seamone - 2004-08-04
Re: chinese schools are not aware

> I was born very white-skinned, so that has never been a problem for
> me in finding a job. However as I get older I find that many doors
> don't open based on my age. I have just turned 42, so I'm far from
> ancient, but for many employers 35 seems to be the limit for English
> teachers.

> Like you say, "It's their loss, not mine," and there are
> places that will hire a decent teacher despite the fact he or she
> doesn't fit their poster pinup idea of what a teacher looks like.

> Still, it is always disheartening being knocked back for what seem
> like the wrong reasons.

==========================================================================

Mike ... we meet again!

You mention your just having reached your 42nd birthday. Happy Birthday, "youngster!" I, myself, have just hit 67, while I'm still hard at it in the ESL biz. WHY? Because I LOVE IT! B-U-T, when our dear colleague discusses hardships endured in our field because of her color, while you and I because of our age, we must make note of ANOTHER malady, namely prejudice, which must be stamped out in the international ESL marketplace. But, as you say, an employer has a right to hire only that person who exemplifies his/her vision of "the perfect instructor." Of course, being so uncompromisingly restrictive (hard-headed, if you wish) in one's hiring practices most assuredly presents a serious risk of passing over the TRUE talent that could help a school grow. Once again, that is the employer's prerogative. And, Mike, as you also quite appropriately state the case, REJECTION surely pays no homage to one's confidence, let alone his/her years of devotion to the field of language communication. In view of this reality, it is paramount that, with each personal humiliation encountered, one build a stronger outer shell which will withstand the injury of disappointment while NOT destroying one iota of continued interest in teaching. After all, to my knowledge, no one ever experienced life as a breeze ... except, possibly, those poor slobs who, by being constantly exposed to such "breeze," eventually died of the flu!

Keep the faith, folks, and we'll get through EACH and EVERY adversity!

Love to all,
Ellis

#4 Parent Deborah Rogers - 2004-07-28
Re: chinese schools are not aware

> I am a teacher in china.before I got my job it was not easy.All
> schools wanted Europeans or Americans.I am an African but grew in
> America(usa).From my point of view,The origine of a teacher does not
> matter much.What matter is if he can pour the stuff.Let me tell you
> something.This people who are rejected as not skill are the most
> skill.I think this is racism on the part of schools administrators.

> What do you think

Hi!
I think that to stop some people (who I hope are not using such a lack of methodology with their ELD students) from having to remind all of us, teachers, of common sense grammar rules that most people ignore (don't ask me why, I'm too busy dealing with my lack of grammatical mistakes, I am a non-native English language teacher, which among other things implies that I speak more languages) it would be nice to do the following:
1) If you think that somebody in particular is responsible for something so generic as the fact that some schools do not hire teachers because they are non-native please tell him/her in private. I would not like to have such an overwhelming responsibility on my shoulders!
2) If you want to publish a book on grammar and spelling, please go ahead and do it! And let everybody else enjoy this spontaneity of speaking out your mind on ESL.
3) Please, use the tools bar and self-correct your messages.
Have a great day!

#5 Parent Mike B - 2004-07-28
Re: chinese schools are not aware

> King Lee, after being rejected by schools merely because of my skin
> color, I have learned to rise after the fall by just reminding
> myself, "It's their loss, not mine."

> Perhaps, it's not racism. Perhaps, it's ignorance and misconception.

I was born very white-skinned, so that has never been a problem for me in finding a job. However as I get older I find that many doors don't open based on my age. I have just turned 42, so I'm far from ancient, but for many employers 35 seems to be the limit for English teachers.

Like you say, "It's their loss, not mine," and there are places that will hire a decent teacher despite the fact he or she doesn't fit their poster pinup idea of what a teacher looks like.

Still, it is always disheartening being knocked back for what seem like the wrong reasons.

#6 Parent DoS - 2004-07-28
Re: chinese schools are not aware

I think that Ian's answer was a little strong, but I agree in principle to what he was trying to say (or what I think he was trying to say).

I believe to be an English teacher you should have *very* good English skills. King Lee's article had a fair amount of errors in, more than I would want from a teacher who is supposed to be setting an example.
To be fair, everyone makes typos, (even me ;-) ) but I don't think all those can be counted as typos, especially when some mistakes were repeated.

I don't care where you are from, or what colour you are, I am not racist, but you should be able to set a good example for your students.

I have a teacher here who's English is not up to scratch, and I can't give him any sort of advanced class as the students will pick up his errors! What sort of impression does that give? I have had to help him marking homework even! I don't have time for that (on an ongoing basis). His contract will likely not be renewed.

> King Lee. You wrote that you're an African. You're giving this
> braindeath-ian satisfaction with your reply. The idiot was looking
> for an answer from you to make you feel bad of who you are. Please
> note; the idiot doesn't say anything about all the other bunch of
> teachers making misspellings here.

> Lesson, never reply with words to an idiot, always punch it very hard
> in the mouth. Since this after all is the internet, let's hope this
> idiot drown this weekend with beer if it can afford any.

> You are OK King Lee. Just in case the idiot reply, ignore it.

> Alan M.

#7 Parent newbie sensei - 2004-07-28
Re: chinese schools are not aware

King Lee, after being rejected by schools merely because of my skin color, I have learned to rise after the fall by just reminding myself, "It's their loss, not mine."

Perhaps, it's not racism. Perhaps, it's ignorance and misconception.

#8 Parent Alan M. - 2004-07-28
Re: chinese schools are not aware

> Some people are very reactional in this ESL discussion forum.I wrote
> an article with less grammatic notification.This are normal mistakes
> one can committe in the internet.Infact i made the mistake of not
> cross reading my article.But dear friend this is not the right way of
> reproach."Two wrongs can't make a right".This is just an
> advice and if you don't take it serious then you may suffer some
> social problems and of which I think you do now.I have been
> discussing in this forum fo
> r a long time but I have never met such a carniforous animal as you.

> just for the person who replied my article

King Lee. You wrote that you're an African. You're giving this braindeath-ian satisfaction with your reply. The idiot was looking for an answer from you to make you feel bad of who you are. Please note; the idiot doesn't say anything about all the other bunch of teachers making misspellings here.

Lesson, never reply with words to an idiot, always punch it very hard in the mouth. Since this after all is the internet, let's hope this idiot drown this weekend with beer if it can afford any.

You are OK King Lee. Just in case the idiot reply, ignore it.

Alan M.

#9 Parent King Lee - 2004-07-28
Re: chinese schools are not aware

> How can you say you are an English teacher who is highly skilled when
> you make so many mistakes (spelling and grammar). You are the reason
> why schools don't employ non-native speakers.

> I am not talking about typos here:

> China is a country. Capital letter. Capital letter after period/full
> stop. Spaces after periods/full stops. .. an African who grew in US?
> Grew up maybe. How do you spell "origine"?
> "skilled" not "skill". What do you think?
> Question, add a "?".
> I can't be bothered to re-write the other sentences in a better form.

> That's what I think.

Some people are very reactional in this ESL discussion forum.I wrote an article with less grammatic notification.This are normal mistakes one can committe in the internet.Infact i made the mistake of not cross reading my article.But dear friend this is not the right way of reproach."Two wrongs can't make a right".This is just an advice and if you don't take it serious then you may suffer some social problems and of which I think you do now.I have been discussing in this forum fo
r a long time but I have never met such a carniforous animal as you.

just for the person who replied my article

#10 Parent Ian - 2004-07-28
Re: chinese schools are not aware

How can you say you are an English teacher who is highly skilled when you make so many mistakes (spelling and grammar). You are the reason why schools don't employ non-native speakers.

I am not talking about typos here:

China is a country. Capital letter. Capital letter after period/full stop. Spaces after periods/full stops. .. an African who grew in US? Grew up maybe. How do you spell "origine"? "skilled" not "skill". What do you think? Question, add a "?".
I can't be bothered to re-write the other sentences in a better form.

That's what I think.

> I am a teacher in china.before I got my job it was not easy.All
> schools wanted Europeans or Americans.I am an African but grew in
> America(usa).From my point of view,The origine of a teacher does not
> matter much.What matter is if he can pour the stuff.Let me tell you
> something.This people who are rejected as not skill are the most
> skill.I think this is racism on the part of schools administrators.

> What do you think

King Lee - 2004-07-27
chinese schools are not aware

I am a teacher in china.before I got my job it was not easy.All schools wanted Europeans or Americans.I am an African but grew in America(usa).From my point of view,The origine of a teacher does not matter much.What matter is if he can pour the stuff.Let me tell you something.This people who are rejected as not skill are the most skill.I think this is racism on the part of schools administrators.

What do you think

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