esl in asia
- 2005-01-09
Wow, I like your Web site. I can only think of a special award for it. Really, we must congratulate you and showing us just how much a lie Kyoto is and global warming. Hey, you could work in China. Theres a bloke on here by the moniker of DOS who would love to hire a guy like you.
Good Luck!!!
Richard Guy
- 2005-01-09
I speak Native English and would like to teach Conversational English. Yo may contact me at 520-429-3012.
I am a Structural Engineer (Retired) and am well gualified in English. See my Web Page at: www.widemargin2000.com Thanks
Chunping Alex Wu
- 2004-07-25
Hi, ESL teachers & recruiters:
I am not here to argue. If I were a recruiter, I won't mind the color, race, gender, I do mind their qualification, certification and experience. As the proverb goes: "The taste of the pudding is in the eating". As long as one can make my students English proficiency, the more the better. In all the world, there are still lots of illiterates. They speak fluent English, we can label them "native speakers", but they had never had any education, not mentioning related degrees and methodologies. In the universities I had been, many foreign teachers were very arrogant in fighting for their rights, but in the classroom they were a lazy bunch. They came from 'civilized','developed' countries, yet they smoke in the public without asking if they were offending anybody. Their penmanship were poor, their English was full of grammatical mistakes, yet when questioned, they would say that's contemporary colloquial English, or slang.
Students in the second language countries do not have a choice. They wanted to improve their language skills to handle the negotiations and business transactions when facing their clients. Sticking to one kind of dialect might hinder their comprehensions. I would keep changing teachers from different countries from time to time, so they would be accustomed to the different tones by different customers. Right now, those teachers are here for free paid touring purposes. Most are have been here by signing a contact of a year. Students have no chance to appreciate the variety. Believe or not, most of the students in China nowadays can't read cursive writing. So they couldn't understand manuscripts and memo by customers, either. Their textbooks do not reflect their future needs. They are learning a dead, bookish language. They may be able to pass the exams, but not an extensive interview.
Some recruiters did call me by phone, the purpose was to evaluate my oral English proficiency, but was more or less a formality. I think it should cover in over all phases, to insure the future results.
Alex Wu
Jelly T. de Jong
- 2004-07-20
Yes, I also think it is rather naive to insist on native speakers to occupy language teaching positions. When I lived in Spain, the local people would come to ME (a Dutch national) for advice on spelling of their language. I have learned to teach Spanish as a foreign language to non- native speakers of Spanish. Most Spanish have not learned this. Neither did I learn to teach Dutch as a foreign language to foreigners. After one has learned how to teach a language as a foreign language, one can work VERY hard to get to near native speaker level. If one, on top of all this, is a truly committed teacher, then one is a very good teacher, isn't it?
boots43
- 2004-06-23
My wife who is Chinese and I who am 50 have both managed to find jobs teaching in South Korea - which means some places aren't judging by skin color or age. but all too many still are- and your point is very well-taken.
Ian
- 2004-06-23
Hi Eddie. I wasn't really talking about typos, which mine was obviously. I was talking about grammatical errors and lots of spelling errors. You are right, everyone makes mistakes, but some make more mistakes than others.
I *do* know there are lots of native speakers who are not qualified to teach in China. Who's fault is that? Not the native speakers, but the Chinese bosses who hire them, and the Chinese customers who want them.
As I have said in another post, I don't care what people look like. You don't need to convince me that there are good and bad black and white teachers.
Please, my name is Ian, not Lan! I am not a Local Area Network! ;-)
> I have read through all the articles on The discussion Forum and I
> haven't seen any one without a mistake. These mistakes MIGHT not be
> delibrate.They are mostly typographical errors. Take your post for an
> instance "Take you post".
> I believe , mistakes are part of humans .There is no one that is
> absolutely perfect, then we should believe the saying that "to
> err is human.........." If I understood the context of Moses'
> article well.I think he was trying to talk about the activites of the
> so called native speakes in the classroom. Like Goto, I have had
> several native speakers who had taught in my school. Many of them
> don't even know how to teach. Could you imagine a native speaker I
> got from The States,all he did was to sing "Head and shoulder
> kneels and toe to senior grade(3) students.
> Eventually , the students found him to be such a bore and they
> complained about him and he was fired . The most important lesson we
> should learn from Moses' article is that , employers shouldn't look
> on the basis of skin color, or on native speaking countries.But on
> the basis of Competency , dedication , and love for the job.
> Currently , I have three foreign teachers , 2 from Africa and the
> Other a Philipino. They are doing a great job. My students are
> satisfy with them.
> Dear Lan, do you know there are so many native speakers in China who
> are not qualified to teach english in China? Do you know Chinese
> employers just hired them on the basis of skin color? Of course, this
> is not to say native speakers are not good. But sometimes they are
> not the best you need. I hope you won't mind that I have pointed out
> your little mistake. I might have made such a mistake too. Then we
> should know mistakes have no masters.
> Thanks dear readers.
Ian
- 2004-06-23
"you have also made so many mistakes in your response to Goto" .
Please point these mistakes out to me!
Look guys, I have already said that there are *lots* of Native English teachers who are not good teachers. I agree with you. However, to say they are all bad is simply untrue.
I have also said that I agree with you when you say there are lots of very good African teachers. (There are bad ones too.)
People are just people. I don't care what colour someones skin is. If they are a good teacher then they are a good teacher.
*HOWEVER* you are preaching to the converted. The people you really need to take this up with are the CHINESE bosses and the CHINESE customers.
You've convinced me, really, and I didn't need convincing anyway!
-Ian. (Not Lan)
> Well, this discussion has been going on for a while now. I just want
> to draw your(Lan) attention to some personal observation I have had
> as a school Administrator.
> I have had several foriegn teachers from the so to say native
> speaking countries . Presently , I have 8 foreign teachers. I have
> found out the blacks among them are very Active in the class compare
> to the whites .
> They are so eager to learn new ideas . So they are always improving.
> The three, native speakes are from The USA, Australia and Canada
> respectively. I think these guys are just fortunate they are native
> speakers .Really, they have no good lessons to offer . I eventullay
> fired two of them ( Canada and The State) Then the other guy from
> Australia is on probation.
> Mean while I have been enjoying the services of my African teachers.
> They have brought a lot of popularity to my school, not just because
> they are good teachers but they are very friendly.
> If errors made by writing are ways to measure a good teacher, then i
> doubt you will be one, you have also made so many mistakes in your
> response to Goto .
Zhang
- 2004-06-22
I think it's really a bad idea to base recruitment of foreign teachers on native speakers. Chinese employers are so selfish because they can easily cheat the whites skins. It should be on the basis of competency rather than skin color. It should be on the basis of what a teacher can offer . Not on the basis of where he or she comes from. If other nationalities are good, why not have them in your school , either black or white, yellow ,red or blue skin . We are just a big family in one world for all. I have come across other nationalities who speak with what the white folk calls the standard american accent.
Thanks.
Kelvin( Hunan)
- 2004-06-22
Well, this discussion has been going on for a while now. I just want to draw your(Lan) attention to some personal observation I have had as a school Administrator.
I have had several foriegn teachers from the so to say native speaking countries . Presently , I have 8 foreign teachers. I have found out the blacks among them are very Active in the class compare to the whites .
They are so eager to learn new ideas . So they are always improving. The three, native speakes are from The USA, Australia and Canada respectively. I think these guys are just fortunate they are native speakers .Really, they have no good lessons to offer . I eventullay fired two of them ( Canada and The State) Then the other guy from Australia is on probation.
Mean while I have been enjoying the services of my African teachers. They have brought a lot of popularity to my school, not just because they are good teachers but they are very friendly.
If errors made by writing are ways to measure a good teacher, then i doubt you will be one, you have also made so many mistakes in your response to Goto .
PETER NJODZEKA
- 2004-06-21
Thank you so much for showing an example of African teachers... Like I said, all the teachers I have sent to Chinese Schools are doing a wonderful job and students can proof that to other people.... It's just the matter of convincing other schools to understand that not on white teachers can teach English.... I have two teachers in Nantong Insitute of Technology, one in Beijing Electronic Industry School and many others in other parts of China... altogether I have 56 English Teachers in China currently teaching and making wonderful difference by bringing out the real English Language to their students.... I've had several cases where some of them will write or call and tell me how a whife native speaker has been fired because he/she was not teaching well... but they are doing pretty good far from the whites. So I am very confident in my teachers, and all I want to do now is to plead with people like you to contact me and make more contacts to hire our teachers around China. We are sending English teachers free of charge to these various schools.
You can contact me through:
Tel.: +237-7716288
E-mail: penjoka@yahoo.com
Thanks
PETER NJODZEKA
- 2004-06-21
Moses, I wish every Chinese or everybody can understand exactly like you and I. I have been trying to tell people about this, but they can't agree with me. I am right in Cameroon, a bilingual country, just like Canada and when I see requirements from a school that they need only Native Speakers, and they mention Canada, I wonder, because Cameroon is just like Canada. I am the President of one Organization that has been sending English teachers to China for some time now, but things are becoming very difficult that one cannot understand. Everything schools are telling me is that Cameroon is not a Native Speaking, but still my teachers are teaching and defeating even many Americans, British, Canadians and other native speakers, but the schools will not understand. I agree with you that they should take everybody equal and look just on what they really want than insisting on nationality. You cannot take somebody because of his/her documents, while practical he/she is not what you wanted.... it's just a line for anybody to understand.... Thanks and hope to have more people like us in this world....
Thanks
Mike B
- 2004-06-21
Good points here by everyone, so far.
I am working in Mexico (but hoping for a change very soon) at an institute with about 15 English teachers from different countries. Most of them are pretty good, a few are very good, but some are absolutely awful.
The hiring criteria at this institution are fairly strict compared to many places, but there are still teachers with MAs that are terrible, teachers with years of experience that are terrible and teachers with the minimum requirements (BA and 1 year experience) that are terrible.
To be a good teacher I think it is essential you understand three things, what your students want, what your boss wants and what you can do to satisfy their wants.
People insisting that students use X method because they just finished a thesis or a paper on that method are way out tune with everything. At the end of the day ESL/EFL is a business, and nobody would open a shop to sell their personal preferences while ignoring their customers tastes, would they?
Ian
- 2004-06-21
I think there is truth in both your responses. I never said that every English teacher is a good one. However, the quality issue should be resolved by the Chinese education system!
There *are* lots of good English teachers though. Several are at my school (me included!!)
Perhaps the teachers you had were not really native speakers? A lot of them are not. Perhaps the schools methods were not good. Many English teachers in China are forced to teach the way the school tells them to, and these methods are not good at all. Often when the native teacher tries to teach a better way there are reprimanded.
If there wasn't a demand for native teachers there wouldn't be any of us here! If the teachers don't do a good job then the school loses students and that makes the school notice!
I am not saying all foreign teachers are good or bad, I am just saying that when I want to learn Chinese, I go to a Chinese teacher. Yes, I have have had several Chinese teachers, and some have been good, some bad. There ya go.
> Helping English learners to save lots of money...
> I studied English with 3 native speakers (1 year) and no much
> improvement. Respectfully none of them knew how to teach English.
> Example, they have no idea of DO vs Make etc. All they knew was that
> they were native speakers with white skin, blue eyes, a BA/Master and
> a TESOL diploma looking for part time jobs on newspapers, good people
> though.
> I saved lots of money by hiring later a Japanese English
> teacher(Aki)who learned English in Canada. The results in six months
> were awesome, because Aki knew all my flaws right away, and
> instructed me how to study using sounds on cds and the net sites. I
> still improving with all the secrets Aki gave me. I can understand
> English movies finally, movies like Brave Heart. As for Aki, he
> taught many of my friends too. Another friend I have in Fuji city
> learned by hiring a Japanese English instructor there. Her English is
> better than mine without never learning from a native English
> speaker.
> I do recommend to any ESL student outthere to hire first a person of
> your same country and language with professional knowledge of
> English. Then later on when you are ready for conversation only, why
> not try a native speaker. With all the new voice sound new
> technologies (professionals native speakers recording) really there
> is no need to have somebody repeating the same word when you are
> learning.
> Ciao!
> Hiko
> Osaka
> PS I'm presently learning French with a French teacher (Japanese). My
> job is travelling abroad representing a company.
Eddie Lee(China)
- 2004-06-21
I have read through all the articles on The discussion Forum and I haven't seen any one without a mistake. These mistakes MIGHT not be delibrate.They are mostly typographical errors. Take your post for an instance "Take you post".
I believe , mistakes are part of humans .There is no one that is absolutely perfect, then we should believe the saying that "to err is human.........." If I understood the context of Moses' article well.I think he was trying to talk about the activites of the so called native speakes in the classroom. Like Goto, I have had several native speakers who had taught in my school. Many of them don't even know how to teach. Could you imagine a native speaker I got from The States,all he did was to sing "Head and shoulder kneels and toe to senior grade(3) students.
Eventually , the students found him to be such a bore and they complained about him and he was fired . The most important lesson we should learn from Moses' article is that , employers shouldn't look on the basis of skin color, or on native speaking countries.But on the basis of Competency , dedication , and love for the job. Currently , I have three foreign teachers , 2 from Africa and the Other a Philipino. They are doing a great job. My students are satisfy with them.
Dear Lan, do you know there are so many native speakers in China who are not qualified to teach english in China? Do you know Chinese employers just hired them on the basis of skin color? Of course, this is not to say native speakers are not good. But sometimes they are not the best you need. I hope you won't mind that I have pointed out your little mistake. I might have made such a mistake too. Then we should know mistakes have no masters.
Thanks dear readers.
Hiko Goto
- 2004-06-20
Helping English learners to save lots of money...
I studied English with 3 native speakers (1 year) and no much improvement. Respectfully none of them knew how to teach English. Example, they have no idea of DO vs Make etc. All they knew was that they were native speakers with white skin, blue eyes, a BA/Master and a TESOL diploma looking for part time jobs on newspapers, good people though.
I saved lots of money by hiring later a Japanese English teacher(Aki)who learned English in Canada. The results in six months were awesome, because Aki knew all my flaws right away, and instructed me how to study using sounds on cds and the net sites. I still improving with all the secrets Aki gave me. I can understand English movies finally, movies like Brave Heart. As for Aki, he taught many of my friends too. Another friend I have in Fuji city learned by hiring a Japanese English instructor there. Her English is better than mine without never learning from a native English speaker.
I do recommend to any ESL student outthere to hire first a person of your same country and language with professional knowledge of English. Then later on when you are ready for conversation only, why not try a native speaker. With all the new voice sound new technologies (professionals native speakers recording) really there is no need to have somebody repeating the same word when you are learning.
Ciao!
Hiko
Osaka
PS I'm presently learning French with a French teacher (Japanese). My job is travelling abroad representing a company.
> I agree that there are many English users out there with a good level
> of English. For younger students and beginners they are often very
> good teachers. However, even good users make mistakes. Take you post,
> in one part you said: ..."establishemnt in Asia has failed to
> recognise"...
> which has a spelling mistake (probably a typo) and a grammatical
> error. When you are teaching more than the basics, you should teach
> *good* English, and *good* grammar, without these mistakes.
> If I were to learn another language I would want a "NATIVE"
> speaker to teach me.
> You said that it is an international language, which is correct of
> course. However, just because people use it doesn't mean they are
> qualified to teach it.
> Having said all of that, I agree there are lots of native speakers
> that don't use the best grammar and don't have the best spelling in
> the world.
Ian
- 2004-06-20
I agree that there are many English users out there with a good level of English. For younger students and beginners they are often very good teachers. However, even good users make mistakes. Take you post, in one part you said: ..."establishemnt in Asia has failed to recognise"...
which has a spelling mistake (probably a typo) and a grammatical error. When you are teaching more than the basics, you should teach *good* English, and *good* grammar, without these mistakes.
If I were to learn another language I would want a "NATIVE" speaker to teach me.
You said that it is an international language, which is correct of course. However, just because people use it doesn't mean they are qualified to teach it.
Having said all of that, I agree there are lots of native speakers that don't use the best grammar and don't have the best spelling in the world.
> It's becoming a thing of concern that many educational establishemnt
> in Asia has failed to recognise other nationalities who have good
> command of english language . I think english is an international
> language .Therefore, it doesn't belong to any country : America,
> Canada, Australia or Britain.
> I have been in China quite a time now, I have come in contact with
> good teachers who have good command of english and they're not from
> the so called native speaking's countries. And as well, I have come
> in contact with bad teachers who are native speakers.
> So , we should accept the fact that english does't not belong to any
> country .Other nationalities with good command of the language should
> be given equal consideration . Afterall , it's a world of all. Or
> ,what do you think about this ?
> Thanks.
It's becoming a thing of concern that many educational establishemnt in Asia has failed to recognise other nationalities who have good command of english language . I think english is an international language .Therefore, it doesn't belong to any country : America, Canada, Australia or Britain.
I have been in China quite a time now, I have come in contact with good teachers who have good command of english and they're not from the so called native speaking's countries. And as well, I have come in contact with bad teachers who are native speakers.
So , we should accept the fact that english does't not belong to any country .Other nationalities with good command of the language should be given equal consideration . Afterall , it's a world of all. Or ,what do you think about this ?
Thanks.