I pretty much agree with your post Boots, with the proviso that the underlying reason for coming to (China) may differ for each person. As well as this different people will 'tolerate' different levels of organisation and management 'styles', as well as different teaching methods sometimes 'imposed' by the school.

Myself I don't mind (to a degree) random classes appearing with little notice, as long as it doesn't happen too much. I believe this is the way things in China work, so you have to go with the flow at times. I can tolerate certain teaching methods as long as there is some decnet logic behind it and it doesn't 'damage' the students, and I can teach *my* way as well. (The school is welcome to see this and approve it first of course).

A valid Z class visa and expert visa are a must!!!!

Having said that, the schools are employing foreigners, so they must also be aware of the western culture and also try and meet us half way.

I certainly agree that if the school messes you around you should leave, though in practice this is sometimes hard to do in a 'nice' way.

I really really agree with you when you say you should do your research on a school. Contacting the other teachers past and present is a good idea. I think I have said that before too. I have written a Q&A paper for potential newbies coming to China and I always sent this to any teachers asking about coming to "my" school.

Private schools and Universities/state schools have many different 'features' and you should consider which type suits you.

I too am willing to give any advice and answer any questions. Bear in mind I am at a private school and I am really busy now though, so I may not be in a position to reply very quickly at times.

For me (and this is ME personally, not anyone else) a good school will listen to me and my views, and act upon them, or meet me halfway at least. Not mess me around too much schedule wise and give me decent acomm. Also for me, money is important and I may be willing to put up with a little more crap if the pay is better. *However* I would only work in a school that can supply a valid Z class visa and Expert certificate. In return I give my best to the school and help it to improve as well.

Each to his own. Ones man's meat is another man's poison. When in Rome... A stitch in time.. etc etc ;-)

> When you are looking for a school to teach at, what criterion do you
> use for a good place to teach?

> First, when you are going to a foreign country, you are going to need
> more help than when you teach in your own country. Many people who
> come to the foreign countries(Zac and Sandra come to mind as
> examples) have no previous teaching experience or relevant
> credentials. They could NOT be teachers in their home countries. This
> is their opportunity to teach. Most people in this position (Sandra
> and Zac do not come to mind now) realize that the best source of
> information on how to teach comes from those who have done so
> succesfully already.

> Others(myself included) taught for a long time(in my case 23 years)
> in their home country and have multiple degrees(in my case two
> masters degrees- one each in English and one in education) as well as
> publications (two English manuals and two math manuals in my case)
> before deciding to teach overseas. We still have much to learn as
> learning is a life-long process, but we have learned some things that
> can come only from experience and education.

> So, what I am trying to tell you here is that I am willing right here
> and now to give advice to anyone who wants that advice from an
> experienced, published,holder of advanced degrees, and credentialed
> teacher.

> One thing is don't go over without doing thorough research. I made
> that mistake one time and the disaster of Nanyang was the result.
> This is the place I have mentioned many times elsewhere and I won't
> go into details again here.

> There should be a person(s) whose job it is to help the foreign
> teachers. This person should speak fluent English and should have
> lived in the West. This person is your liason and - while you should
> try to understand their situation - it is also vital that they
> understand yours. In Nanyang I made the mistake of not having first
> talked to the person in this position. I was warned about her before
> I came and made the big mistake of not listening.

> Talk to teachers who have been there - and have left if this is
> possible. Someone who is still there might not be totally free to
> express him/herself. Search sites like this one for feedback on the
> school.

> The living conditions must indeed be liveable. Do not(if you are in
> China) accept " This is China" as an excuse. I have gotten
> that excuse at two schools - and I simply said that it isn't this way
> everywhere in China. It is only an excuse and you should not accept
> it as being valid.

> Everything that is in the ad should be provided. Everything that is
> in the contract should be provided. If they do not provide you with
> contracted services, you are under no obligation and are doing nobody
> any favors by staying there or putting up with the conditions. Leave
> - there are too many good schools seeking good teachers like yourself
> to put up with those who will not follow their signed agreements.

> Most schools are good. The school that I am at now is giving all of
> its foreign teachers two months pay in addition to the contracted pay
> to make our lives easier and to show their appreciation to us. Any
> time I have a problem I can go to the foreign affairs office and
> Professor Zheng, Director Wang Yang, or Ms. Jenny Chen will solve the
> problem. Not say they will solve it(Zheng Ping in Nanyang was really
> good at saying she'd solve a problem, but as Sandra so aptly pointed
> out in a misguided context, actions do speak louder than words), but
> actually solve it.

> This same problem-solving technique I have met at two other excellent
> Chinese schools in the persons of Ms. Song, Mr. Gu Yufei, and Mr.
> Nigel Jones. The first two were at Liaocheng Teachers University
> where I lived while being the pilot foreign teacher at Wenxuan Middle
> School and the last is a fluent in Chinese British-born co-owener of
> Olvie Tree English kindergarten in Chengdu I have had the same
> experience in the persons of Mr. Cho, Mr. Kwan, and Mr. Vacek in
> Seoul at Sejong Foreign Language Institute.

> In five of the six Asian schools I have had the joy of teaching at,
> students came first because the teachers were carefully chosen and
> properly trained. A good school will ask its teachers what they'd
> most like to teach and what they feel best-qualified to teach. This
> enabled AnYang Teachers college (and please don't confuse it with
> Nanyang!) to place me - their teacher with the most literature
> experience - as their teacher of American and British literature. It
> enabled Sichuan Agricultural College to put me in charge of the turf
> management TOEFL class of students who will eventually go to Michigan
> State in my native USA. It enabled Sejong Foreign Language Institute
> to give me the classes no one else wanted to deal with -when they
> found out it is exactly those high-risk students I excel in teaching.
> Liaocheng made me the first teacher in a new program because I had
> the pioneer spirit. The Olive Tree English Kindergarten in Chengdu
> made me the teacher of the "big kids"(4.5 to 6 years old)
> because I was the teacher there with a degree and experience in that
> area. A good school will find these things out by ASKING you.

> A good school will give you as steady a schedule as they can possibly
> provide. This is the best for all concerned. They will not send you
> into a class and say teach whatever(This is what Nanyang told me.).

> I know how to teach and I also know when a school is not a good one
> and when they just want to take advantage of the inexperienced and
> ill-prepared. I have seen both types of schools- fortunately, there
> are many more of the former than the latter. A school should value
> experience more than youth, should value education more than
> neophytes, and should provide the best learning and living situations
> to their teachers because, in the end, this will bring to the school
> (and retain) the best teachers.

> Anybody who believes that experience and education is vital to the
> teaching process is welcome to write me at my listed e-mail. I am
> here to help people and not to partake of ad hominem attacks. Thank
> you.