Hi Lee Joe,
I am an African American woman interested in teaching in China and in Asia. Can you give me any tips for doing so in China. I would welcome any information you can provide. Please feel free to be honest. I want to know what I am getting into ahead of time. Thank you.

> Hi, Peter, this is Lee Joe, your partner in China

> Really I am working very hard for your teachers and i do no think the
> oppotunities for your teaches are slim. As an agent, for your
> teachers, i would try every means to help your teachers and to a
> large extent, to help Chinese people to be cosmopolitan and
> sophisticated in mentality. you and your teaches should have due
> patience and right now i am carring out frequent negotiations with my
> Chinese partners here aound mainland China.

> As people here in China say Cameroonian's Englsih or the blackls's
> Englsih is not standard, this is a generalised discrimination.
> as Anne Wang voiced her BLACK teacher was not articularily qualified,
> should we say black are not good Englsih speakers, no NO

> Who should be responsible for waht Anne Wang's case? the school
> should be responsible you know why the school hired this unquilified
> teacher.

> Peter best regards to you and the E.T.O
> your picture is handsome

Well, let's see here. "Got to go" means have to go, "I've got a pen", means I have a pen, even worse "should have gotten" means should have got or any other number of 'should have .....' -- the list goes on and on. The point is two-fold : 1. anytime you use the verb "get" when it doesn't mean obtain or receive, ESPECIALLY with new English learners( come on we're supposed to be English teachers here!), either it is an idiom like "I get it" or it has a better rendering. 2. Check a Cambridge dictionary - (one written by the British) my bet is you will not find "gotten" anywhere in it. Let's not forget that American English has been somewhat 'Wild Wested' and many expressions mean something that have nothing to do with the literal meaning. Just check all the meanings of "get" in the American dictionary, there's at least 20 - JUST REMEMBER THIS CAN BE VERY CONFUSING FOR NEW LEARNERS.

> Aaaahhh, this was a major discussion provoker on Dave's Korean board
> a week or two ago.

> I for one use and teach "got" and will fight almost to the
> death for the sake of got.

> Re. "gotten," it is the American English past participle of
> got, whereas Australia, NZ and English use the more modern
> "got" so depending on who and where I'm teaching I use
> whichever is more correct.

> Got to go, I have to apply exams (my favorite part of the semester,
> he he he.)

Aaaahhh, this was a major discussion provoker on Dave's Korean board a week or two ago.

I for one use and teach "got" and will fight almost to the death for the sake of got.

Re. "gotten," it is the American English past participle of got, whereas Australia, NZ and English use the more modern "got" so depending on who and where I'm teaching I use whichever is more correct.

Got to go, I have to apply exams (my favorite part of the semester, he he he.)

Ah well, this is what makes the world go round - variety. Everyone has his own p.o.v. *Mine* is that "gotten" is the worst word going. It depends where you are from I suppose. Americans use "gotten" and can 'get' away with it. I am not American.
I would "correct" your example sentence below with:
"They should have *hired* a better teacher".
I don't really see how the first sentence is bad and the second one isn't.

> I agree we should teach good English. But the word 'gotten' is not
> bad English. Yes, he's got a skateboard is not good English, but they
> should have gotten a teacher is not bad English - even though a
> better word could have been chosen. Just need to be careful that we
> distinguish between correct English, "better" English, and
> incorrect English.

> Oh yes thank-you!! I 1000% agree with you! It drives me mad,
> especially 'gotten'. Half our textbooks have sentences like:
> "He's got a skateboard". Ggrrrrr! I always make my students
> re-write these. In this case: "He has a skateboard".
> If you are going to teach English, teach good English.

> Mmmm, before people start on "that's how people use
> English", yes I know. I actually do have a lesson to cover these
> things, and I go over points as they come up. I started doing this
> after students asked me what words like : "Gotcha" meant,
> which they had heard in films. However, I don't accept this in their
> speech. My theory is that if they want to go for an interview, (and
> many do for colleges etc), then they need to know the formal way of
> talking. They can pick up the bad habits by themselves!

> DoS
> "Do as I say, not as I do"

I agree we should teach good English. But the word 'gotten' is not bad English. Yes, he's got a skateboard is not good English, but they should have gotten a teacher is not bad English - even though a better word could have been chosen. Just need to be careful that we distinguish between correct English, "better" English, and incorrect English.

> DEAR MR. KWAKU,

> I'm no wolf in a sheepskin. If you are proud to be an African, so am
> I a Chinese.

> By saying that I pretending to be someone else Mr. Kwaku, it has
> given me the impression that you are a man without vision and with an
> appalling foresight. In your mind, Chinese students are lazy, useless
> and pampered, isnt it? I DON'T BLAME YOU FOR THAT.

> I have god to thank that I'm not one of your student. You are simply
> degrading us by jumping into your very own conclusion or you simply
> have the inferior complexity feeling.

> You are expecting all Chinese to write and speak chinglish, aren't
> you? Terribly sorry to disappoint you, please do except my sincere
> apologies for not writing in chinglish. The thing is that I can't
> write Chinglish. Our newscasters I believe are living prove that not
> all Chinese speaks and write Chinglish.

> As for educating myself, I sure will. Thank you very much, Mr. Kwaku.
> I proud to say that I have taken advantage of the years Ive had with
> my foreign teachers.

> Mind you, my dear Mr. Kwanku, I have had me six good Americans
> teachers during my Senior Middle School days and not forgetting the
> other eight that took me under their wings from the very day I
> entered college right up to now. That gives me a total of 7 years of
> English learning with 14 foreign teachers.

> With the exception of the Cameroonian teacher, I have been well
> taught by all my foreign teachers, and they have even told us that
> with our limited vocabularies knowledge we can simply outdo anyone,
> provided we put our phrases and choice of words right. In your case,
> I strongly believe it has been proven right.

> I have to sign off for now and go sit for my silly examination.
> Oppppss. Wish me luck, Mr. Kwanku and all my foreign friends in here.
> I may need it.

Anne, as many people here know (smile), my wife is Chinese and her English is so good that they have hired BOTH of us to teach in South Korea. I have taught in China for more than two years and I am very impressed by the very wonderful students that I have had. I am glad to read your answer to Kwaku and congratulate you on the hard work that has led you to be able to write so fluently in your second language.

> Dear Anne,
> Pay the teacher at least 15k to 20k rmb a month, prepaid-airfare,
> apt: 24 hrs. heat, hot water at least during winter, max 15 students
> per class - no 45. Are you willing to pay 3 to 4 times more tuition?
> ps. conditions above still below average i.e. japan, korea, no near
> north america. I make twice my salary with some OT in korea. I still
> paying off student loans, no charity work at this time. But maybe in
> the future. pls don't take it personal. If you want cake......

> Taylor

Taylor, I have worked in the USA, South Korea, Turkey, and China. And, when you consider the economic standards and cost of living in each country (which you must do to be fair), China pays the best.

I believe any educated English speaking person that has some teaching experience can teach English .I'm an African and have had fun teaching and living in China for two years. There're some so-called money making schools in Asia that think Africans are not and can never be good irregardless of their qualifications or experiences, and they even prefer to hire some non-English speaking Europeans even if they don't understand English well. My advice to other dealing with such schools is play low and forget about them. Follow your instinct, apply to as many schools as possible, and if you have the means, do some recognized TEFL course. China is a huge country and there will always be something for everyone. I've been teaching for the two years I've lived in this country and I got all the offers on my own, so you don't really need those recruiters or racist schools, all you need is to be strong, focused and remember that those racists can't bring you down.

God be with you all, better days shall come when all discriminations will stop.

Dear Anne,
Pay the teacher at least 15k to 20k rmb a month, prepaid-airfare, apt: 24 hrs. heat, hot water at least during winter, max 15 students per class - no 45. Are you willing to pay 3 to 4 times more tuition?
ps. conditions above still below average i.e. japan, korea, no near north america. I make twice my salary with some OT in korea. I still paying off student loans, no charity work at this time. But maybe in the future. pls don't take it personal. If you want cake......

Taylor

DEAR MR. KWAKU,

I'm no wolf in a sheepskin. If you are proud to be an African, so am I a Chinese.

By saying that I pretending to be someone else Mr. Kwaku, it has given me the impression that you are a man without vision and with an appalling foresight. In your mind, Chinese students are lazy, useless and pampered, isnt it? I DON'T BLAME YOU FOR THAT.

I have god to thank that I'm not one of your student. You are simply degrading us by jumping into your very own conclusion or you simply have the inferior complexity feeling.

You are expecting all Chinese to write and speak chinglish, aren't you? Terribly sorry to disappoint you, please do except my sincere apologies for not writing in chinglish. The thing is that I can't write Chinglish. Our newscasters I believe are living prove that not all Chinese speaks and write Chinglish.

As for educating myself, I sure will. Thank you very much, Mr. Kwaku. I proud to say that I have taken advantage of the years Ive had with my foreign teachers.

Mind you, my dear Mr. Kwanku, I have had me six good Americans teachers during my Senior Middle School days and not forgetting the other eight that took me under their wings from the very day I entered college right up to now. That gives me a total of 7 years of English learning with 14 foreign teachers.

With the exception of the Cameroonian teacher, I have been well taught by all my foreign teachers, and they have even told us that with our limited vocabularies knowledge we can simply outdo anyone, provided we put our phrases and choice of words right. In your case, I strongly believe it has been proven right.

I have to sign off for now and go sit for my silly examination. Oppppss. Wish me luck, Mr. Kwanku and all my foreign friends in here. I may need it.

> "Anne Wang" a Chinese student? or a frustrated English
> speaking person?

> I'm African. Im not pretending to be somebody else to point fingers.

> Enjoy pretending you're somebody else Anne? Educate-Yourself.

> Kwaku W.
> Ghana

> Basically, I believe the school should have gotten someone whose
> English pronunciation was good to talk to the teacher ahead of time-
> and then asked his/her advice on hiring. An ounce of prevention is
> worth a pound of cure.

I really hate to see English teachers using "get" and "gotten" when there are many far more appropriate verbs that could be used. Don't take this personally, this is just an observation from from another English teacher and is my personal opinion, not necessarily that of the Editor or Manager, hehehehe :-)

Kwaku,

Sorry if this is a bit blunt but... WHAT???!!

> To Anne Wang.

> Striving is fairly unattractive. One of the ways we strive is to
> become somebody more or other than we are. Aspirations are fairly
> healthy; striving can get ugly. You can be yourself and still wish to
> develop yourself. That's fine. But don't try to become somebody else.

> All the best to you.

> Kwaku
> Ghana

hi Anne,

You seem to have a bad teacher.

1- Do you think other teachers from the same country or continent, are the same?

2- Did you ask for a reimbursement from your school directors for hiring a teacher that cannot even speak English?

3- Are you concerned that your country is giving work visas to any teacher?

Stop having problems and start solving them.

> So, youre saying that a school in China who is an equal opportunity
> employer should take the blame for employing "crappy"
> Cameroonian teachers.

> Granted, our school should take the blame but the accusing fingers
> should not be directed at my school alone. They go all the way to
> give other nationalities a fighting chance but they blew it.

> Let's get back to the point. "You know why the school hired this
> "unquilified" =unqualified teacher".

> With all due respect,

> You, are in one way or another saying that Cameroonians with the same
> qualifications as my former teacher aren't qualified.

> Our former Cameroonian teacher told us he's a graduate and with six
> years of teaching behind him. If that is not qualification enough,
> what is then?

> Hi, Peter, this is Lee Joe, your partner in China

> Really I am working very hard for your teachers and i do no think the
> oppotunities for your teaches are slim. As an agent, for your
> teachers, i would try every means to help your teachers and to a
> large extent, to help Chinese people to be cosmopolitan and
> sophisticated in mentality. you and your teaches should have due
> patience and right now i am carring out frequent negotiations with my
> Chinese partners here aound mainland China.

> As people here in China say Cameroonian's Englsih or the blackls's
> Englsih is not standard, this is a generalised discrimination.
> as Anne Wang voiced her BLACK teacher was not articularily qualified,
> should we say black are not good Englsih speakers, no NO

> Who should be responsible for waht Anne Wang's case? the school
> should be responsible you know why the school hired this unquilified
> teacher.

> Peter best regards to you and the E.T.O
> your picture is handsome

Your picture is handsome? I hope we are not going to start hiring on that basis- because -if we do - I am in big trouble- unless my wife gets to do all the hiring!

Truly, that is one thing I have been very annoyed by in Korean hiring- this emphasis on what someone looks like. Is that about racism? ageism? or just plain old sexism- or perhaps, lecherism?

A friend of mine was told- without a look at her credentials - that she was beautiful enough to teach in a Korean hagwon. She didn't accept that position.

As far as the non-standard English is concerned, I am not sure what is standard. Who decides that? I do know lots of schools want American or Canadian English because they are thinking of their students going to American or Canadian schools or having future business dealings with North American-based companies. Others want British accents. I think this is acceptable- as long as the reasons are language-based and not sexist,racist, ageist, or any other of those nasty -ists

I know I have extended the subject matter on this post. Please accept my apologies if that is offensive to anyone.

Hi, Peter, this is Lee Joe, your partner in China

Really I am working very hard for your teachers and i do no think the oppotunities for your teaches are slim. As an agent, for your teachers, i would try every means to help your teachers and to a large extent, to help Chinese people to be cosmopolitan and sophisticated in mentality. you and your teaches should have due patience and right now i am carring out frequent negotiations with my Chinese partners here aound mainland China.

As people here in China say Cameroonian's Englsih or the blackls's Englsih is not standard, this is a generalised discrimination.
as Anne Wang voiced her BLACK teacher was not articularily qualified, should we say black are not good Englsih speakers, no NO

Who should be responsible for waht Anne Wang's case? the school should be responsible you know why the school hired this unquilified teacher.

Peter best regards to you and the E.T.O
your picture is handsome