Well Turnoff, you're really way off the mark this time. So much so in fact, that I don't really know why I'm bothering to respond to your post. Maybe it's that I'm a little bored, so why not spend a little time utilizing my boredom on the boring.....just kidding; actually, your posts are anything but boring. Well, hmmmm, actually, the jury is still out on that one.

As for qualifications: AA Speech Communications; BA Asian Studies and Second Language Acquisition; MA Applied Linguistics and TESOFL Methodology

But the really telling part of your post is your condemnation of those who have received a 4 week certifcate to teach ESL/EFL - or, as you called it, ERSL - whatever that is. This is a rather backhanded way of blowing your own horn by devaluing the education and/or experience of others. During my four years in China I've met many language teachers with "only" a BA and a TESOL certificate who have done an excellent job and who are well appreciated by their students. And oh yes, by the way, they have not been limited to only teaching conversational English. But then you seem to be setting yourself up as the judge of who is, as you wrote, "reasoably qualified."

The main gist of my post though, which you failed to respond to, is the fact that you've made some rather all inclusive statements regarding the Chinese that cannot be ignored by fair minded people. Had you refined and/or restricted your comments they may have been a little more palatable. It is true that there is an age old concept in China called "the others," and it may well be true that many teachers are subject to the cultural truth of this concept; however, your translation of this was "outlaw." And that's why I called it a "crock." We are not perceived as outlaws - outlaws are criminals. But it's true that we are in some situations considered "others." But that applies to other Chinese as well.

I need to ask you in all fairness, Turnoi - see, I've even used your chosen user name. But really, have you ever spent any time in rural China? Have you ever spent at least a week in a rural village? Do you actually have a clue about the 800,000,000 people in China who have had very little if any contact with foreigners? My distinct feeling is that you have not, and that your perceptions are what I have labeled as limited because they are textbook based along with some negative experiences you've had at the hands of certain employers. You claim to have had ample experience in China, but you've been very vague about this. In fact most of your writing, along with the unfortunate truth that your English needs some serious revision, is laced with vagueries and generalizations.

In answer to your question as to whether or not I'm a real teacher, yes I am. I've been teaching EFL in China for four years. Prior to that I taught in a college environment in America for seven years - both immigrants and international students. Yeah, your assumptions, like your perceptions,are way off the mark.

But please feel free to set the record straight and please accept my apology for suggesting that you need to be turned off. Just a little jab........that shouldn't hurt anybody.

Finally, your snide remarks and those of your snide little friend, "Old and Tired," directed against Fish should be retracted and you should both admit to the juvenile nature of said remarks. Fish has been a positive contributor to this forum for sometime. If he chooses to ask for both sides of the coin to be examined, that is well within his rights; furthermore, it suggests to me that he is far more rational minded than most of the whiners in this and other ESL/EFL forums.