New Aston - Teachers Discussion

Hi Craig. Your discribtion of the new Aston in Xian still sounds like the old one which was run down and crowded when classes were happening on a weekend. Provide some pics so we can see for ourselves!

That's the official line... - Teachers Discussion

Yes, this is what they tell everyone as they come in. "Everything is great here, and anyone who doesn't like us is just a malcontent and a loser."

I've seen the phenomenon referred to...there are indeed lots of people here in China who have impossible expectations and whine about everything in sight. But I can assure you that not all the complaints fall into this category.

Back to the topic of aston schools - Teachers Discussion

I have worked for Aston Schools in three different locations now
Dalian, Jinan and Chengdu

In my experience they have always been fair to me.

I have also found that in every location there are always teachers that complain.
But then us FT's in China are a whiney bunch, so it never surprises me that someone is moaning about something.

Think Again! - Teachers Discussion

I have been reading the on going stories about Aston English Schools with mild amusement. I have worked at three different schools over the past four years. I took a break and traveled for a year. I worked in Jinan, Xian and one of the "franchise schools" like you outside of Xian Blake. I saw and experienced a huge difference of treatment in all of these schools. The only school I would recommend is Jinan. Xian is a bad as the posts that I have read here and on their own web site. I never knew Dana as I worked there at a different time than she did.

Blake I hope that you are at a school there that has a better franchise than the one that I had. These franchises are giving Aston a real bad name and many teachers are finding this out. They are no different than any other Chinese run or managed school. The yuan is more important and many franchises only want to use the Aston name. Logo and rep to make as much money as they can. They ignore the class numbers, teachers are told to pass failing students, your are expected to be puppets on a string like the Chinese staff are when it comes to social outings with the franchise Head Master and their friends. I stopped going out to eat with my Head Master as I am not one who likes to drink beer and the rotten "bi jo" and I soon found myself disliked by the Head Master and he wanted a new teacher to replace me. I only had a six month contract and rode it out as the Head Office was not going to send a replacement.

I will say that I had no problems in Jinan but I too had similar problems as Dana and other teachers had in Xian. Yes Xian is not a smoothly run school. Many of the same problems happen there as in the franchise schools. I could go into detail but I will not at this time. Some of us Blake did complain to Dalian, the Head Office but it did no good.

People if you are going to work with Aston English I would only go to Jinan and do not go to a franchise school because they are profit driven like any other Chinese type school. Aston has lost a lot of the good name we worked

Figure of speech... - Teachers Discussion

Hey KJ,
Aw, sorry, that's just the way I talk. "Not completely terrible" here really meant more like "not bad at all"...

And your last amplification is even better than that. Private schools in China (and other countries too!) really can be snake pits (even worse than the public ones!) and it sure wouldn't hurt to know the ropes first...

A reason for those cold feet... - Teachers Discussion *Link*

I think it's safe to say that Aston fits the mold of chain schools...local conditions vary a lot with the owner and managers of the local franchise. In Aston's case my problems went all the way to the top of the organization, and I'm not sure an organization can be better than its leadership.

I definitely agree with KJ's observation that despite what they will tell you, the "Western-owned/Western managed" schools are often no better than the ones run by Chinese. Indeed, I think I've had far more trouble and heartbreak from the "Western-owned" schools than I've had from the homeys...and believe me, that's saying a hell of a lot.

I wouldn't go so far as KJ's advice to avoid private schools altogether...although if you can handle the lower pay of public schools it's not completely terrible advice. I do advise, however, staying away from the CHAIN schools. There's a huge body of unhappiness out there trailing them.

Scott, if you'd like you can PM me at spamjiaozi@yahoo.com (what the hell; it's plastered all over my own site anyway...) and I will fill you in completely on...the lovely city of Suzhou.

Scott: Re Aston - Teachers Discussion

If you will research here further, you will discover that the general consensus is to avoid private schools altogether. In my opinion, and that of others who are well experienced in China, chain schools with Western management and/or owners, though they tout their professionalism quite vigorously through the use of nicely laid out websites and well spoken hiring staff, are as guilty as others in not living up to their promises - written or verbal. However, there are a few, (very few) private schools that are Western managed and /or owned that are worth your effort. But if you find yourself interested in one of them, it would be well worth your effort to ask probing and meaningful questions. As stated here before by myself and others, if the communication breaks down at any point during which you have asked those questions, it's time to back off and continue your job search.

It's also been stated here that one should ask for visual representations of the apartment and school where you will be living and teaching. Nine times out of ten that will be the end point - they really don't want you to see your shabby living quarters and they definitely don't want you to be aware of how unprofessional their school really is. Don't be fooled by pictures of the front office - they will make the effort to have that look nice; not only for your benefit but also for the benefit of the parents of potential students. One other thing is that you should get verifiable testimonials from past teachers. Don't be afraid of offending them by asking for these things. If they truly are a professional and well run organization, they won't be surprised or offended by your questions.

First time teachers in China would be well advised to avoid private schools no matter what. If you are truly interested in working in China and possibly making a difference, it would be wise to begin with a public college. Generally, you will be treated well with such a position and from that perch you can view the rest of the teaching environment in China. You will learn a lot simply by communicating with your fellow teachers and continuing your on-line research while employed in a relatively safe and honest environment. Proof of this can be found by surfing these websites where you will find that a low percentage of the complaints are in regards to the public colleges.

I should add that at the university where I am now employed there are three or four colleges that hire foreign teachers. Most of them have been teaching in China for as long as I have - meaning more than a few years. Many of these teachers have been teaching on this campus for more than two years. Their response when asked where they will teach next is always the same - why take the risk of teaching elsewhere when everything is ok here? Yeah, there will always be problems of one kind or the other. After all, this is an entirely different culture, but generally those problems can be resolved through awareness and working closely with the Foreign Affairs Office.

So again, avoid private schools - at least until you've learned the ropes through communication and research.

Good luck!

The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not, and never persist in trying to set people right. ~Hannah Whitall Smith

In giving advice seek to help, not to please, your friend. ~Solon

Sometimes I give myself admirable advice, but I am incapable of taking it. ~Mary Wortley Montagu

Well, no matter what one thinks about giving advice, the truth is that we who often post such advice as given above are often dumbfounded by how often it goes unheeded. Regardless; we keep on trying don't we? I like the last quote above though; it helps me remember that I must find the inner strength to heed my own advice even if it goes counter to my basic instinct to be a trusting person. I am often helped though, while traversing these EFL waters in China, by my Chinese girlfriend who feels the need to often remind me not to be so trusting. Any comments?

Ain't that the truth! - Teachers Discussion

About not using it trivially!

It does happen... - Teachers Discussion

Chuck,
I think that you are essentially right.

However, I have seen. even been part of, teacher solidarity in isolated pockets. IT DOES WORK!

It is hard to put together...it takes a good crew of teachers who are astute enough to realize that what happens to one teacher in a school will eventually happen to ALL the teachers there. "If we don't hang together, we will most assuredly hang separately..."

If you can get it together, it's an incredibly powerful weapon. Really about the only one we actually have. Like all powerful weapons it should never be used trivially, but I wish sometimes we could see more teachers sticking together for each other...

My own little "Crash Course" In Aston Schools - Teachers Discussion

This increasingly intense discussion about Aston Schools certainly made me curious to learn more!

First of all, I am quite fond of this discussion forum, for numerous reasons. I appreciate the freedom and what I call the messiness of this place, but of course, theres a downside to that quality as well (Ill get to the point about that later.).

The first post to catch my attention was Danas recent Aston Double Talk in response to Aston Director Assistant, Owen Morris. I then read the entire thread, dating back to Danas original post Xian Aston 6 March 2006. As I read Danas post it certainly called to mind similar experiences Ive had with these kinds of educational organizations is the past. I have absolutely NO direct knowledge or experience with Aston, but I suppose due to my own bumpy ride in China, much of what Dana expressed regarding her experience rang true to me.

Owen Morris two responses were measured and thoughtful, and certainly a valiant attempt at some damage control, which he has every right to do. In fact, in the past two months, I have been openly quarrelling with another poster (John a/k/a Dave not the same Dave in this Aston-related thread) regarding fairness and balance on the part of posters. John seems to believe FTs, even when sounding the alarm about poor working conditions or a particularly bad episode at a school (public or for-profit), have a responsibility to offer a fair and balanced characterization of the school or manager in question. I simply dont agree. I feel if the school wants fair and balanced representation, then it is THEIR responsibility to defend themselves or join the discussion. Owen Morris has done that, and Im glad he has stated his position with regards to Danas claims.

Next comes JJ who strongly disagrees with Danas two posts. But at this point, two things are beginning to make me skeptical and/or uncomfortable. As I stated in the beginning, I like the loose environment here, but what is starting to make the whole thing a bit wobbly (especially this thread) is that all of the posters in this thread (except for Owen and Chuck, who like me, is on the outside of this situation), have not included e-mail addresses, or contact information of any kind. What begins to happen is that anyone, calling themselves by any name, with no traceable or credible identity can post, rant, rage, defend, carry on, etc. (Im mostly referring to JJ here, but almost everyone here seems to be fearful of being contacted privately.)

Sorry, JJ, but I simply didnt see how much of what you said had much to do with Danas assertions.

JJ, by saying things like:

Aston has given me language lessons, taken me to the hospital when I was sick, given me gifts on my birthday and for holidays treated me to countless meals and arranged trips and other activities. . .

OK, JJ First of all, I fail to see how birthday gifts compensate for incompetent working and poor housing? (Dave has already argued the hospital service issue in his post.)

DON'T SPEAK FOR ME!! I am capable of speaking for myself.

Excuse me, JJ, Dana said most teachers, not JJ

Aston is not perfect by any means but then no job is whether here or back home in that utopia that is The West. You spent no more than 6 weeks in China, I don't think this makes you an expert on the subject.

This utopia that is The West quip gives me the feeling perhaps youre not an FT after all Youre beginning to sound more and more like a Chinese staff member of Aston. But of course, JJ with no e-mail address could be anybody, anywhere. You could be the owner of Aston for all we know

I seem to remember seeing numerous negative posting about Aston on other ESL-related websites, so I began to look around Lo and behold, I find two new job postings for Aston today. Although they were posted by two different manager in different locations, both postings offered some exact same passages about the terms of the position.

For example:

Date: Monday 21 August 2006

Details

Aston English Schools (China's largest American managed school) is still seeking 5 teachers for our private language schools in Chongqing, Taiyuan, Xuzhou, Lanzhou and Yulin in China for our September term. We would like teachers to start on September 2nd.

We require:
Native speakers of English at least 21 years old
Nationalities preferred are Canada, United Kingdom, United States, Australia and New Zealand
College degree in any subject
Must be willing to teach children classes

Compensation
September Starts

One Year 25 to 27 Hrs./Wk.
Salary 6,200 RMB/month
Hours/Week 25-27
Teaching Days/Wk 5
OT 100 RMB/hr for over 25 hours per week (monthly scale)
Completion Bonus 1,000 USD
Medical Insurance Yes
Personal Leave Days 14

One Year 20 Hrs/Wk
Salary 5,000 RMB/month
Hours/Week 20
Teaching Days/Wk 3-4
OT 100 RMB/hr for over 20 hours per week (monthly scale)
Completion Bonus 500 USD
Medical Insurance Yes
Personal Leave Days 14

One Year 15 Hrs/Wk.
Salary 4000 RMB/month
Hours/Week 15
Teaching Days/Wk 2 to 3
OT 100 RMB/hr for over 15 hours per week (monthly scale)
Completion Bonus 300 USD
Personal Leave Days 14

Six Months 25 to 27 Hours/Wk
Salary 6,200RMB/month
Hours/Week 25-27
Teaching Days/Wk 5
OT 100 RMB/hr for over 25 hours per week (monthly scale)
Completion Bonus 225 USD
Personal Leave Days 7

Six Months 20 Hours/Wk
Salary 5000 RMB/Month
Hours/Week 20
Teaching Days/Wk 3-4
OT 100 RMB/hr for over 20 hours per week (monthly scale)
Completion Bonus 150 USD
Personal Leave Days 7

Six Months 15 Hours/Wk
Salary 4000 RMB/month
Hours/Week 15
Teaching Days/Wk 2-3
OT 100 RMB/hr for over 15 hours per week (monthly scale)
Completion Bonus 100 USD
Personal Leave Days 7

Note- All bonuses are intended as your flight reimbursement. To get a full flight reimbursement you must make a commitment for at least one year and do the full 25 hour contract. Lesser contracts allow you more flexibility such as the 15 hour contract only working 2-3 days per week, but you compromise on the bonus. Also note that leave days with AES are not paid. Time of is prorated from the monthly salary. All contracts include shared housing, Internet access and Chinese classes.

Wow!!! For a for-profit organization, their salaries seem incredibly LOW, especially for teaching children, which can be a highly exhausting endeavor.

25 teaching hours a week at 6200RMB, works out to 62 RMB per hour, or less.
Also above, the job posting states that Overtime pay is 100RMB per hour, but their website says 90RMB per OT hour (and that overtime is calculated on hours per month, not per week watch out!).

And what is this business in the terms about 7 or 14 personal leave days (depending on 6 or 12-month contracts), when later they tell you these leave days are unpaid!?!?!? Thats hardly attractive, or an incentive to sign a contract!

If wants to teach 15 hours a week for 4000RMB per month, they might as well sign with public university, and get paid a likely wage of 4500-5000RMB per month (depending on location). In fact, Aston states on their website that positions in Dalian and Jinan pay only 3500RMB a month for a 15-hour a week contract!!

Aston requires that teachers SHARE housing! Id never agree to that. Again, a university will pay someone near the same salary (or a little more), and provide private housing.

So now I decide to check out the Aston website http://www.astonenglish.cn/e/default.asp

Before I point out several more questionable entries, I want to praise Aston for at least providing a decent website, with lots of reasonably honest information (a true rarity in China!).

FROM THE ASTON WEBSITE:
What will my teaching schedule look like?

The answer to this question depends heavily on the type of contract you decide to sign.

Essentially, a 25-hour teacher's schedule might look like this:

Saturday - Up to 8 hours of classroom time - anytime from 8:00 AM to 7:00 PM teaching kids from 6 to 17 years old. Classes are two hours with a break in the middle and time for lunch. Lower levels are taught by a Western teacher and a Chinese Teacher.

Sunday - Same as Saturday.

Monday, Wednesday, and Friday OR Tuesday and Thursday - One class of adults in the morning. One or two classes in the late afternoon.

MWF adult classes are usually 2 hours. TTh classes are usually 1.5 hours.

A 15 hour teacher might have a Saturday and Sunday schedule similar to that described above with an English Corner on one day during the week.

A 20 hour teacher would have a Saturday and Sunday similar to the schedule described above as well as one TTH adult class or a full afternoon of classes on Wednesday.

The above examples are not rigid rules; each school may vary schedules slightly depending on local market needs. Teaching schedules are set by the Location Manager so any scheduling requests such as certain days off or vacation time are made with the school. Teachers may be scheduled for a substitution class, an outside company class, or other events such as English Corners to fulfill contract hour requirements.

The Aston Website indicates programs created for corporations. How were they set up? (I would be interested in creating/teaching a class geared toward a specific company.)

Course material and development go through the Education Department and your manager or teacher trainer. There are procedures in place for this, which your manager can elaborate on.

Given my background and assuming I stay at an Aston School more than one year, what type of extra role might be considered?

We normally promote from in-house staff. Depending on your qualifications and ability to adjust to living and working in China this could happen within a few months. Some people love it here and get along very well, some find it hard to get used to the Chinese way of doing business. Most new managers start out as General Assistants teaching a half schedule and helping out in the office and then move up to Assistant Location Manager, Location Manager, and then City Manager. There are also possibilities for positions as teacher trainer or in the head office if you have specific talents that Aston is looking for.

Are apartments individual or shared? If the latter, how are assignments made?

Shared. We ask applicants their preference (smoking/non; male/female; old/young) and assign from there unless you specifically request a person you know.

Visa Applications and Processing

Anyone and everyone that enters China will need a visa. If you are planning to be in China as a teacher, you'll in most cases need a work visa (otherwise known as Z visa). The flaming hoops and red tape involved in the process of obtaining a Z visa can be slightly daunting. You should always work directly with the staff at your assigned school if you have any questions regarding visas. The staff at your school will know the particulars regard local regulations and issues that the central office or our overseas recruiting offices may not know about.
Our teachers are responsible for all visa fees outside of China. Within China, Aston pays for our teachers' work residency processing, registration, and the in-China medical exam.

Hey, I dont know about you, but I would never sign a contract with these guys!

OK, did you notice that they give a scenario where some teachers are expected to teach children for EIGHT hours on Saturdays and Sundays?

They also talk about some programs which offer corporate training. I can tell you from experience that most teachers who do corporate training (including myself) usually ake 150-200 RMB per hour. I would never do this work for what Aston pays (they must be making huge profits from their teachers)!

In the past, when Ive been offered a manager or Head Teacher position I decline; because from what Ive seen, heard, and experienced first-hand, these managers or Head Teachers are used mostly as messengers for the owners. Rather than facing the teacher directly when they want to make salary deductions, or some other type of creative penalty (which they know will likely enrage the FT), they make the foreign manager deliver the news. Education input or serving as an advocate for FTs rarely comes into play, if ever. Does this sound familiar Dana? Dave? Owen? For a slightly higher salary than the pitiful one been paid to the FT, these managers accept the extra money to protect the financial interests of the owner(s). Ugh!

In the Aston model (stated above in the section on extra role), it also implies that perhaps commissions are part of the managers monthly salary, which also feeds the potential for deception, misrepresentation, and possibly threatening behavior on the part of the foreign managers. Ring any bells, anyone?

Finally, in addition to the bliss of shared housing, the cherry on the Aston sundae is their refusal to reimburse the cost of the FTs visa.

I now believe Dana more than ever! Once unsuspecting FTs arrive and start working in China (and for outfits like Aston), and they find out how many hours they should really be teaching, and what kind of wages they should really be earning, I imagine they are happy to get away from Aston ASAP.

Don't speak for me. - Teachers Discussion

> This weekend the teachers will be running out of the doors from Xian
> Aston and other Aston schools as their contracts are over. Glad to be
> rid of the place.

I am leaving Aston this weekend and I for one will be sad. I have had a great time teaching for them,
I am returning home due to family commitments but hope to return in the future.

> If you are going to do something Owen just do it and stop your verbal
> BS. Actions speak louder than words people! We all know that. So why
> doesn't Aston do things to help us teachers who travel across the
> world to come here and work.

What exactly do you want him to do? You have left and he said he was sorry if you had a bad time there. I also know for a fact that during your time at Aston Xi'an you were happy and smiley and constantly telling the management staff that all was peachy. If nothing is said at the time then all that can happen is talk. Aston has given me language lessons, taken me to the hospital when I was sick, given me gifts on my birthday and for holidays treated me to countless meals and arranged trips and other activities. What exactly do you want them to do?

The foreign managers at Aston are all
> Chinese! They are only worried about their "face" with the
> head office in Dalian.

> Most teachers will not post a meesage here because they are glad to
> be finsihed with Aston. feel the world needs to know the the
> "largest American owned school in China " is just like any
> other poorly run Chinese school!

DON'T SPEAK FOR ME!! I am capable of speaking for myself. Aston is not perfect by any means but then no job is whether here or back home in that utopia that is The West. You spent no more than 6 weeks in China, I don't think this makes you an expert on the subject.

At the end of the day, you had probelms with the school that were not resolved before you left for whatever reason. This does not, in my eyes, warrant a personal attack on Owen or give you the right to be a mouthpiece for Aston teachers around the country of which I am an incredibly satisfied one

Aston Double Talk - Teachers Discussion

Well Owen's reply to my original message here is very typical of the way Aston likes to handle complaints. Talk, talk talk and talk! Owen was well aware from the beginning of my problems and did nothing but talk. At the end when they handed me a bill saying that I caused the damage I got more talk from you Owen and the other foreign managers. This weekend the teachers will be running out of the doors from Xian Aston and other Aston schools as their contracts are over. Glad to be rid of the place.

If you are going to do something Owen just do it and stop your verbal BS. Actions speak louder than words people! We all know that. So why doesn't Aston do things to help us teachers who travel across the world to come here and work. The foreign managers at Aston are all Chinese! They are only worried about their "face" with the head office in Dalian.

Most teachers will not post a meesage here because they are glad to be finsihed with Aston. feel the world needs to know the the "largest American owned school in China " is just like any other poorly run Chinese school!

Really? - Teachers discussion

Strange, AES usually seems to show no reticence at all about responding to complaints on sites such as this. Still, they seem to have a pretty shaky reputation with a fair number of people out there.

I'm curious about this statement:
"...some postings and complaints pre 2005 were in fact valid. The good thing however about AES as company is that they recognise this with the confidence that such complaints are not valid anymore."

So this means there really were problems until 2005, but now everything is wonderful, and anyone who complains now is lying?

I find that really hard to accept.

China: Xian Aston - Teachers discussion

I would like to warn you all out there about Aston English Schools. I worked this past winter (20005-06)in Xian for Aston. It was nothing short of a nightmare. THe apartment they moved me into was a dump. It was littered with beer bottles and other house junk left there by the previous teacher. When asked to have someone come around to clean it up I was told that it would have to wait. The apartment had no regular hot water to shower with. It was turned on only at certain times on certain days. The toilet did not work properly and the apartment had no heating of any source. Nothing was done to fix any of these problems till I was getting ready to move out and a new teacher ( a Male!) was about to move in. When I was collecting my last pay I was shocked to find that I was being charged for all the repairs that were never done to the apartment. The foreign managers were no help at any time with my complaints and esp. at the end they backed the Chinese management in trying to charge me for these never done repairs. This school was a living hell for most of the foreign teaching staff. No one shed a tear when they left.

So my advice keep away from Xian Aston!
Dana

[Edited by Administrator (admin) Sat, 14 May 2011, 03:15 AM]