I'm not sure I get your point Chuck. The title of your post suggests that neither Julia nor I are being objective about our comments regarding some of the baffling things about life in China, but then your opening paragraph states that you are given to wonder about such things as pointy shoes. (As for the vanity aspect of wearing such footwear, I would suggest that it's more of a successful marketing ploy by someone who bought some shoes that have been rotting away in some American or European wharehouse since the so long ago decade when they were briefly popular.)

"What are we really thinking about each other," you ask? Not much actually - just basic human curiosity. Maybe you're suggesting that we are passing judgement. Or maybe not, it's hard to tell from your post. But really making note of such perplexing things is just a way to pass the time and get some feedback. No big deal.

Health hazard or not, I'm thinking that you probably wouldn't enjoy having your freshly washed clothes smell like you just finished a 12 hour shift in a fish factory.

They wonder why we eat so much fast food? Hell, I wonder why they eat so much fast food.

They wonder why we leave a carbon trail behind us? Good lord man, have you ever been to Beijing? And from a purely ecological standpoint Chuck, have you actually noticed what's going on in China? Nothing much really - just enough of an ecological nightmare that it's got the rest of the world gnashing their teeth over it.

And shouldn't we wonder why that in a post-SARS environment so many people spit anywhere they please? It's logical to be curious about such things.

They wonder why we wash our clothes so much? Are you suggesting that they don't wash their clothes very often. Of course they do, and they often do so in a matter that is not conducive to a clean environment.

Their kids are not as violent as ours? Give it a few more years. Have you ever noticed how the younger generation is so drawn to violent video games?

At any rate Chuck, don't get so hung up on the need to defend our Chinese brethren. Nobody is attacking the Chinese people. Just commenting about a few noteworthy things. Julia, for example, made it quite clear that such things aren't driving her away from China. She stated that she's been here for six years. She was merely pointing out some interesting aspects of Chinese society and culture. If you were to query her or me about this you would probably discover that there's much about China that we've grown to love and cherish.

Well, maybe I simply misunderstood your post Chuck. I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case actually because generally I don't find much in what you write to take issue with. Please feel free to enlighten me if there's something I'm just not getting.

In my opinion Julia there are multiple questions that one can ask about any country, be it Western or Asian, that seem to defy answers. For example, I scratch my head daily, over policies of the US that seem unfathomable. And when I am there, I, with eyes wide opened, am sometimes perplexed about the behavior of people who, one would assume, have enough education to provide them with discernment. I think though that your questions are valid ones, and I'll admit to being a little confused about common behavior here also.

As to your first question about disorganized classrooms etc., I think it has a lot to do with the condition of the average person here having not yet learned to "think outside the box." Also, quite a few years ago, someone wrote a book called "The Peter Principle." Maybe you're familiar with it. The basic tenet of the book is that too often in a business environment, and after all most schools in China are profit driven - be they public or private, people rise to the highest level of their incompetence. Restated, this means that in so many cases people end up in positions that are one step higher than what their abilities or levels of education call for. Now, because of the situation of "guanxi" in China, this problem has reached endemic proportions; therefore, problems such as lack of preparedness can be traced back to the leader or leaders of the particular institution wherein the problem exists. But again, because of guanxi, accountability is out of the question.

When I first began teaching in China, for a foreign owned international college, I was informed that teaching critical thinking would be one of the main underlying functions and/or difficulties of my position. How true it is. As for guanxi, it's anybody's guess as to how the resulting problems of corruption and incompetence will be addressed, or how long it will take before it becomes less of an overriding issue.

In a previous post you raised some interesting questions about hygiene. Here again, a lack of education is the real culprit, but then again as I write that it seems like a generalization - I've been in villages where the residents are far more aware about such things than city dwellers. Suffice it to say though, that the government, local and national, should make more of an effort to increase awareness. Something you would have thought necessary in a post-SARS environment.

"WTF is wrong with people?" you ask. Hmmmm, I often ask that question myself. But I seem to ask it wherever I go. There again though, an inability to think beyond the need of the moment. I can see clearly how the woman who hung the fish on your clothesline must have been hung up on the need and not the reality.

The family who moves their furniture outside every day. That's a new one for me. But I would guess that a family member, past or present, got that strange idea into their heads and somehow passed it on, and the action was repeated so often that it became what they believe to be normal behavior.

The dog thing. Wow, I didn't know that there was a dog killing spree going on. I know that several years ago the Beijing government decided that there were too many people following the Western custom of pet ownership without the responsibility that should go with it. Too much dog crap on the streets. An edict was passed and enforced. In two weeks no more dogs. But wherever I go now I see too damn many mongrels and too damn many dog owners that let their dogs crap on the street. And you're right, Rabies is becoming a serious national problem. An interesting sideline to this is that the government has been encouraging people to own cats because of the problem of rats and mice eating too much of the rice crop in the South.

The IV thing? Yes, quite interesting. My take on that is that the charlatan doctors are so driven by the profit available from IV's that they can't resist prescribing it. I've literally laughed in their face when I've encountered this. Pity the poor villagers, new city dwellers, who are constantly fleeced by those they unwittingly trust out of misplaced respect for authority

Well anyway Julia, I appreciate your observations. I think that you, like I, want to make the best of your situation here in China, but sometimes what you observe can only make you shake your head in wonder.

wow, they're a few more things i see here in china that will shock you futher.

the most disgusting would have to be how couple's dont care having sex in public.
i've witnessed and heard a couple going at it under a table while i was out eating in a restaurant one night. total outrageous. you would never see this happening in the west. was almost going to vomit my meal.

I would like to add to the things that have already have been said here. Why do these people spit every wheres! On the street, in restaurants, where ever they please. Also why do they throw their garbage anywheres they want! Most do not try to throw it in the direction of a trash can but away from them! You see trash ever wheres and that includes the country side too. Let's hope that the Olympics in 2008 will help to make a move to cleaning things up here.

On the flip side

These are just a few of the aspects in daily life in China that give me a wonderful feeling:

1) Chinese ladies performing their morning red fan dance exercise routines;

2) Workers on bamboo scaffolding outside my window singing to amuse themselves while re-surfacing the buildings faade;

3) Men and women in the street hawking their wares and services repeatedly, for example: Mantou! Mantou! Mantou! (although I cant stand the recorded messages that loop incessantly!);

4) Morning greetings and warm smiles from neighbors and local merchants

5) Grandparents taking their grandchildren to school, or happily carrying toddlers around with them all day.

6) People playing ErHu on the sidewalk to earn money

I just have to say that I loved Frank's post about eye exercises. Having been in China for 10 years I have my own personal list of things that absolutely drive me crazy over here...........Enjoy!!!

1) Students need to spend 12-14 hours a day in school 6 days a week because if they don't they won't learn anything.

2) The students should attend military training for 2 weeks during the hottest time of the year. They should run laps and stand in the sun for hours on end as it builds up their strength. ( My students just finished this and I will never forget seeing them crying and throwing up from sun stroke. The worst thing about this was the soldiers who yelled and screamed at them to get back up and keep going.)

3) You should eat dog meat in the winter as it will help keep you warm. Being an animal lover I find this horrific.

And my own personal favourite...........and if you don't believe this go find a woman who has had a baby and ask her.....

4) After giving birth a woman should NOT shower or brush her teeth for one month. Yes that is correct she should just stay in bed and do nothing. When asked why I was told "if she has a shower she will get sick." I saw this first hand and the smell of that room was unbelievable.

5) Babies, children and adults urinating and defecating outside on the street. This is just something that there is just no excuse for. The worst part is that 90% of these people have houses but will just do their business outside. I think we can attribute this to laziness on their part. I think the worst thing is that they don't clean up after themselves or their children. Having just gotten back from Beijing and Shanghai I couldn't believe how widespread this is. What I think is even more shocking is that China is hosting the Olympics in a years time!!! Let's hope they try to put a stop to that along with the spitting.

There you have it folks, these are just some of the Chinese ways that differ from the West.....if anybody has any other ones that they would like to share.......please do so!!

Have a great day!!!