Joe <joy_odessa@yahoo.co.uk> -- 23 January 2005

I am an English teacher in Ukraine embarking on a new business venture. I’ve been here for three years studying the EFL market and getting to know the people. I think it’s important to do your homework before setting up as a language trainer in foreign climes. Teaching demands a great deal of commitment and integrity if you’re going to do the job right. Reading the posts on this bulletin board leaves me with a sense of disappointment at the number of reported scams. It strikes me that the EFL market needs a good shake up to get rid of the charlatans damaging our industry. Perhaps a policing operation by teachers is required to do the job. I don’t think it is merely enough to post a complaint that will eventually disappear from a bulletin board. Sure, mud does stick for awhile but it can easily be cleaned off and a new façade presented to the rest of the world. This is generally the case with these con artists who are destroying what is potentially a beautiful and meaningful vocation.

This is only an idea and is open for discussion – perhaps the formation of an EFL association for teachers can be organised to safeguard our industry from the parasites that are plaguing it. If there are enough responses to the idea, perhaps, as teachers, we can create a discussion forum to debate the potential of an EFL association to secure the future of our industry. Only an idea!

Hang on in there people – teaching is a great vocation.

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We need more responsible teachers and recruiters!
Chunping Alex Wu <chunpingwu2001@yahoo.com> -- 23 January 2005

Hi, Joe, Right on! Honesty is the best policy. But not many stick to it. I think the cleaning operation should be initiated by the Foreign Expert Department where the officials will take their responsibilities more seriously.

Alex Wu

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And the payment--$500? Ha,ha,ha,ha...
teacher -- 23 January 2005

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What's your problem?
Dos -- 23 January 2005

USD500 may not seem a lot (indeed it isn't by western rates), but it is more than enough here. Remember you get a free apartment and often even the bills paid for you.
Aside from the fact I am on a fair bit more than 500, I have no bills and pay no tax. What I get is what I have to spend. At the end of the day I have more money to spend and save than I did when I was back in the west on a Corporate manager salary. (Though I don't get a company car here!)

Plus of course there are people who don't come here for the money, but the experience.

Grow up 'teacher' and contribute something worthwhile please.

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It IS too low!!
Another teacher -- 24 January 2005

> Aside from the fact I am on a fair bit more than 500, I have no bills

You make some good points Dos! However,the fact that you are on more than 500 dollars a month is significant!.Agreed, 500 dollars a month is not exactly poverty level in China,but there are other factors to consider;-

1. However long foregners have been living and working in China,we almost always end up being charged considerably more for goods, than the natives,however careful we are in trying to avoid it.

2.If our employer turns out to be a ROGUE employer who falls back on the contract,and makes our life an unbearable hell,then it would be more than useful to have enough money saved,so we can safely jump ship,and still have enough funds to tide us over,until we find another school.

3. How many hours a week does our employer want us to work,and are there other duties that they require from us,apart from teaching?Some schools ,particularly private ones,require that we do everything except scrub the classroom floor!!,yet are not willing to pay us accordingly!

4 While we do have it quite good here,the problems of communication ,different cultural thinking ,possible feelings of isolation etc.,are not easy to cope with ,so why should'nt we be payed a bit more for our trouble?

5. We provide something that no native of the country we're teaching in can ever provide,and that's a native English tongue.while it's true we must be able to teach as well, that fact alone means the school can make a considerable income from having a native speaking teacher in their school.

Of course it shouldn't all be one sided! As teachers we should be responsible and try to keep to our side of the contract ,and to teach as well as we can etc.,but I have to agree with the other teacher that 500 dollars a month is generally too low a wage a month for a foreign teacher to earn ,at least in China!

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To DOS-tell us the recipe!
teacher -- 24 January 2005

Some ESL foreign teachers get more in their countries.You are lucky,DOS in China !Tell us the recipe!

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well..
Dos -- 24 January 2005

A good answer AT, but I still don't agree.

>1. However long foregners have been living and >working in China,we almost always end up being >charged considerably more for goods, than the >natives,however careful we are in trying to avoid >it.

Perhaps so, though it depends what you buy I guess. If I go out on my own to a 'haggle' place then yes, I will pay more, but one reason is because I am crap at haggling!! My Australian friend (who speaks less Chinese than me) always gets a good deal. You have to learn what a good deal is of course, but that could be said for anywhere. Generally if I want to buy something expensive I take a local along that I can trust. I am lucky here, my Chinese gf is good at this.

>2.If our employer turns out to be a ROGUE employer >who falls back on the contract,and makes our life an >unbearable hell,then it would be more than useful to >have enough money saved,so we can safely jump ship,>and still have enough funds to tide us over,until we >find another school.

I agree with you 100% here, but I think this is really a different issue. I know it is hard sometimes, but people shouldn't come to China (or elsewhere) without enough funds to sustain them in case of this. I didn't always get a 'good' wage, my first job paid 3k/month.

>3. How many hours a week does our employer want us >to work,and are there other duties that they require >from us,apart from teaching? Some schools ,>particularly private ones,require that we do >everything except scrub the classroom floor!!,yet >are not willing to pay us accordingly!

Well again, I think this is muddling the issue again, I mean this is something that you have to define up-front. Yes, yes, I know it isn't always easy, but this is why you should do your research before taking a job! In all my jobs here I have been paid what I (and the employer) agreed to in the contract, maybe I was lucky, but it could have been because I did my research and read the contract carefully! It is amazing how many people will sign any old crap that is put in front of them. Remember people, a contract can always be negotiated! Don't sign it if you don't like it! Change it!

>4 While we do have it quite good here,the problems >of communication ,different cultural thinking ,>possible feelings of isolation etc.,are not easy to >cope with ,so why should'nt we be payed a bit more >for our trouble?
Well, I think we are! I know people don't accept this, but we are paid a lot more than most Chinese. And if you don't like it, why are you here??

>5. We provide something that no native of the >country we're teaching in can ever provide,and >that's a native English tongue.while it's true we >must be able to teach as well, that fact alone means >the school can make a considerable income from >having a native speaking teacher in their school.

>Of course it shouldn't all be one sided! As teachers >we should be responsible and try to keep to our side >of the contract ,and to teach as well as we can etc.>,but I have to agree with the other teacher that 500 >dollars a month is generally too low a wage a month >for a foriegn teacher to earn ,at least in China!

Well the obvious answer here is that the schools pay the market rate! If people didn't accept this level of pay, then they would pay more! If you aren't satisfied with the pay, then don't take it. Korea, I believe, pays more. Once again I must say that I have more disposable income here than I did in the west, and I was on a good salary back then. Even on USD500, (and less) which I have been paid in previous jobs in China.

Of course, some people don't come here for the money, they come for the experience.